B’s refusal to acknowledge Islam’s contributions to modern life is baffling, in light of the evidence.
B, just because someone built a dome before Muslims did does not make them ignorant copycats. St. Peter’s Basilica has a dome, does that negate Catholic architecture?
The fact is, examples of muslim architecture are so distinctive, that even an inexperienced eye can identify them with ease.
Acoustic engineering was developed by Islamic architects, who designed mosques so that a speaker’s voice could be heard evenly throughout a large room.
Dome of the Rock, Jreusalem
The Kipchak Mosque, Turkmenistan
Nashirah-Mulk Mosque, Shiraz, Iran
And last, but not least….
The Taj Mahal
“You didn’t build that, someone else did.” – Barack Hussein Obama
That was funny, Augger
I’m glad you thought so. It was intended humor.
But on a more serious note … I have been to The Dome of the Rock, and it is amazing. It is the very best of Byzantine art, and Roman engineering combined.
Notable is that the Muslims of the day took great care to incorporate the carvings of Judaism’s antiquity (the Foundation Stone is one example), and preserve it as they built their Islamic temple over the old Jewish one.
I have to at least give them credit for taking care of it.
You are a pitiful man. Are you so insecure that you have to flat out lie to people to try making a point against me? Let me enlighten you, Greg: when you lie about what I have said and then tell people you have proven me wrong, you have done no such thing. You’ve only defeated yourself by defeating the lie you created. That is all this post is: an exercise in self-flagellation.
I never said Muslims have not contributed to the culture of the Middle East. In fact, I openly credited Muslims with helping to establish the first standards for medical professionals and pharmacies, as well as the development of algebra.
For those who care:
I said that Islam has been credited with much more than that to which it can lay just claim. I have also said that much of this is due to the limits of the Islamic religion. For example: Islam forbids the drawing or rendering of any image of a person or animal. This has limited Islamic art. Likewise, Muhammad forbade the playing of most musical instruments, which limits Islamic music. This is also why science — as we know it — is often hindered in Islamic countries: because scientific inquiry proves that much of what Muhammad said that Allah said is not true, and — to Muslims — this is a heresy. THIS is what I really said. What’s more, GREG AGREED WITH ME!
I even explained to Greg that the majority of any “advancement” in Islam was conducted by non-Muslims living in their society, or by Muslims who are ignoring the teachings of their faith — as the modern Muslim leaders often do today.
So, why is Greg here now? Because he is desperate to prove a falsehood. It is past the point of being pitiful. It has crossed over to the realm of deliberate deception. Case in point is Greg’s attempt to “prove” Islam has its own architecture. If you will look at Byzantine and Russian architecture, you’ll find similarities with the pictures Greg posted. The Byzantines pre-date Islam, as did the Persian and Arabian styles already dominant in the Muslim homelands. That would not be “Islamic invention,” it would be a natural carryover of that which already existed. Furthermore, it would be difficult to connect Islam to the Russian similarities. Again, this is in perfect keeping with what I said about Islamic architecture: that a great deal of it was taken from other cultures. And again, Greg admitted this, then argued against my claim after agreeing with my basic premise.
You will have to decide for yourself whether you place credibility with Greg or with myself, but I would ask that you keep this in mind: I have actually taken the time to read the Qur’amn — Greg has not. I have taken the time to learn about the Hadith, what they are and why they are essential to Islam — Greg didn’t even know what they were before I introduced him to them. he has hence acknowledged they are central to Islam, but continues to ignore them. I have not condemned Muslims, only the tenants of Islam — Greg refuses to acknowledge this part of my argument. I have repeatedly told Greg where to go to actually learn about Islam — Greg continues to accept what he is told about Islam from Islamic sources — EVEN AFTER I PROVED THAT THE QUR’AN TELLS MUSLIMS TO LIE TO HIM!!!
So, decide for yourself, but understand, if I am wrong, then it will not matter to anyone. But if Greg is wrong, and his opinion is allowed to dominate the Western world, there will soon be no Western world.
Not sure these are helping your attempts to normalize modern Islamic culture, G:
Iran: Israel’s existence ‘insult to all humanity’…
Saudi Cleric: Jews consume blood of children…
But I’m sure their buildings are nice…and just to be clear, “Islamic” architecture is also Arabic architecture, which is not necessarily Islamic. Arabs invented math, geometry and astronomy…before Islam.
ssshh, you’ll offend his sensibilities and send him scurrying off to find some clerics site that “proves” Muhammad made the arc of the covenant, the holy grail AND invented quantum mechanics — which will then metamorphosis into you claiming that Islam did not make the universe and Greg’s “proving” you a liar…and all of that from your posted of a couple links.
Yeah. I’ll say it again, for an atheist, G is pretty defensive of Islam…and he does have that beard going – I’m just sayin’. I’m with you – I don’t mean to imply that Muslims have made no contributions, but the contribution curve starts to bend down rapidly after the Arabs adopted Islam.
Utah, that is simply untrue, and you are entering B’s exclusive territory of lying by omission….
Jabir ibn Hayyan (ca. 8th – 9th centuries) was an alchemist who used extensive experimentation and produced many works on science and alchemy which have survived to the present day. Jabir described the laboratory techniques and experimental methods of chemistry. He identified many substances including sulfuric and nitric acid
Abbas ibn Firnas (810–887) was an Andalusian scientist, musician and inventor. He developed a clear glass used in drinking vessels, and lenses used for magnification and the improvement of vision.
al-Battani (850–922) was an astronomer who accurately determined the length of the solar year. He contributed to numeric tables, such as the Tables of Toledo, used by astronomers to predict the movements of the sun, moon and planets across the sky. Some of Battani’s astronomic tables were later used by Copernicus
al-Zarqali (1028–1087) was an Andalusian artisan, skilled in working sheet metal, who became a famous maker of astronomical equipment, an astronomer, and a mathematician. He developed a new design for a highly accurate astrolabe which was used for centuries afterwards. He constructed a famous water clock that attracted much attention in Toledo for centuries
Omar Khayyam (1048–1131) was a Persian poet and mathematician who calculated the length of the year to within 5 decimal places. He found geometric solutions to all 13 forms of cubic equations. He developed some quadratic equations still in use.
Nasir al-Din al-Tusi (1201–1274) was a Persian astronomer and mathematician who developed trigonometry to the point it became a separate field,
Notice the dates, do I have to remind you when Mohammad lived?
Plenty more here…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_medieval_Islam
Now go ahead Greg …. wikipedia for us medicine in Greek, and Roman times.
Do you deny the accuracy of anything I have written?
I most certainly deny the point you are trying to use them to make!
Did you see me address any of it? Not sure how you extrapolate denial, I am merely attempting to get you to look back further. You might be completely interested in what you find.
I mean how cool is it that brain, and eye surgeries previously attributed to Muslims was actually performed 3-5,000 years before?
History is deep Greg. Hanging it all upon one sect is myopic. So if I am accusing you of anything, then by all means use that term.
Wiki? Really? I CALL BS – the same BS we get from James.
Greg,
YOU are the one cherry picking specific anecdotal examples to try and prove that Islam was EVER some sort of source of cultural enlightenment to the world. It has NEVER been such BECAUSE THE ISLAMIC DOCTRINE FORBIDS IT!
Good-grief, you are stuck on lying (can no longer grant you stuck on stupid, you’ve been “informed” far too often).
The point is this:
1 — Islam is a religion, NOT a “people” or even a “culture.”
2 — Islam DOES create a culture, and it is a culture of opression. That is in the very name: Islam – SUBMISSION!
3 — The many things attributed to Islam were largely the work of non-Muslims and Muslims who DID NOT FOLLOW THEIR RELIGION!
4 — Pointing to the work of a heretic and then telling us that it represents the religion it goes against IS IRRATIONAL! It does not prove your point, it proves you are untrustworthy.
5 — You have NOT shown — IN THE QUR’AN AND HADITH — that Muhammad did NOT forbid what we would recognize as art.
6 — You have NOT shown — IN THE QUR’AN AND HADITH — that Muhammad did NOT forbid the playing of music.
7 — You have NOT shown — IN THE QUR’AN AND HADITH — that Muhammad did NOT forbid anything that contradicts the Qur’an or himself.
8 — You have NOT explained how you can admit that any attempt to make culture and science compatible with Islamic tenants DOES NOT SUPPORT MY CLAIMS!
In fact, you have admitted my argument and are still trying to argue I am wrong. You are a man so incensed with hatred for a person (me) you have become divided against yourself.
I don’t even know what it is you are saying anymore, but if it is mixed up with a bunch of untruths, you will continue to hear from me.
That is all I have done, B, is address your inaccuracies and hyperbole. If I hated you, I wouldn’t give a tinker’s dam what you wrote. But I know that you are better than this ignorant muslim-bashing, and I will not let you wallow in vague hatred and fear.
Greg,
It’s been so long since you’ve actually done it, I cannot remember the last time you “refuted” anything I’ve said.
I have given up trying to explain how to refute an argument — especially to you, Greg. You have demonstrated that you have no interest in learning. This is most unfortunate because you’ve also demonstrated a serious lack of understanding in this area. Sadly, until you actually learn how to do it with credibility, you won’t get my attention, nor that of anyone else — even if we happen to be wrong (which, in this case, I am not). And that will be because those who understand the proper use and application of logic and right reason easily recognize those who do not and, thus, give little to any credibility to anything they have to say. It would be as if you were 6 y/o again and expected your grandfather to listen to and heed your criticisms of his opinions on politics: even if you somehow managed to be correct, grandpa is not going to listen to you because he has no valid reason to think you are — or even could be.
One more thing, Greg. This is not an attack. It’s just the truth. I know you dismiss it, but I’ve worked hard to learn how to reason correctly, and I continue to work hard to apply it properly. There are times when I use fallacious arguments, I even know when I am doing it. Sometimes I do so to make a point — and you miss them. Sometimes I do so just to be troublesome — and you miss them again. But when I am solid in my reasoning, as I am here, over the issue of what I am REALLY saying about Islam, you see that which simply is not there. This is all I need to convince me that your objections are of little value to anyone who values reason — especially myself.
Since you refuse to see the truth, that Islam has contributed to the knowledge of the physical world, protected knowledge at a time when Christians were burning books and heretics. Your lecturing me is laughable.
B, you don’t use your powers of reason to find the truth, you use your knowledge of debate to win points based on preconceived ideas. Anything that does not jibe with your vision is ignored, or you violate your own 18o-degree rule and attack the messenger or the source instead validity of the evidence.
No, Greg, it’s since YOU INSIST ON LYING ABOUT WHAT I HAVE ACTUALLY SAID!
One last time — for those following (you’ve already proven you have no concern for the truth). I NEVER said Islam hasn’t contributed anything to the world, I said it has been given too much credit for doing things it did not do.
For instance: you claim it protected books, yet it burned books and museums and famous structures when it sacked Constantinople. It also claims credit for burning the great library in Egypt. Now it is boasting about wanting to tear down the pyramids.
This shows there is no break in the historic record: the destruction of anything NOT Islam is a historic trait of Islam. You simply refuse to accept reality, and no one can help you with that. But there’s one thing for sure: history is on my side here, and no amount of trying to tell me I am a liar by CHANGING WHAT I’VE SAID will EVER change that.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before Islam.
I find the architecture to be a bit sexual in nature……maybe my mind is in the gutter…..
Maybe you’re of Arab decent. After all, before Islam, there was a religion in Persia based on sex…