Joe Manchin: ENEMY of the 2nd Amendment

Have you seen this story?

Joe Manchin: ‘I’m so proud of the NRA’

Manchin opened the interview Wednesday by declaring himself a “defender of the 2nd Amendment,”

Oh, really, Senator? Then why did you also say this?

“I don’t know anyone in the hunting or sporting arena that goes out with an assault rifle,” Manchin said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.” “I don’t know anybody that needs 30 rounds in the clip to go hunting. I mean, these are things that need to be talked about.”

Senator, the 2nd Amendment is NOT about sports, or even personal self-defense, it is about defending the nation from idiots and tyrants LIKE YOU!

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We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;
—Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation…(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
—James Madison,The Federalist Papers, No. 46.

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.
—Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American…[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
—Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

[W]hereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.
—Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

 

How sad that the nation which brought forth the principles of self-government, the rule of law and the protection and preservation of individual rights and liberty has forgoten those very same principles.  :-(

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369 thoughts on “Joe Manchin: ENEMY of the 2nd Amendment

  1. The design of handguns and assault rifles, when used correctly as the constructor envisioned, is to kill people quickly and efficiently. There is no other intention. If the US Constitution says everyone has a right to own these weapons, without discrimination, then the constitution is wrong.
    If the 6 year olds had been armed with weapons, they would have been able to exercise their constitutional right to self protection, as the gun lobby might argue. But any rational person would see a problem with arming 6 year olds, and for that matter many American adults, who do not meet rational qualifications for gun ownership.
    The mother of the maniac provided access to two handguns and an m16 like assault rifle, knowing full well her son was unstable, she paid for her bad karma, but so did 20 children and their families. What is the ultimate karmic debt of America for playing with its ongoing death obsession and will the horror ever end?
    Perhaps if reason and human decency does not appeal to Americans, a class action lawsuits involving the manufacturers of these weapons, which by design is proficient at killing people only. They know full we’ll that their product will be abused in these ways, and should be held accountable by the courts. Intention, does count!

    • Arguments from ignorance and absurdity will NOT serve you here, Robert. The Constitution is NOT wrong: a free and self-governing people have the right to be as well armed as the government. the government NEVER has the right to be above the people. If you do not understand this, then you do not understand the basic principles of liberty. If you disagree with it, then you are against liberty.

      It is that simple.

    • Any rational person Robert would know that a comment like yours…”If the US Constitution says everyone has a right to own these weapons, without discrimination, then the constitution is wrong.”…..is what is wrong.

      We have a right to self defence, and if criminals are armed with modern weapons then it is Criminal to take away the means to meet them with equal force. It is also the purpose of the 2nd amendment to serve as an instrument of Tyranny from an Out-of-control government or from individuals trying to take away our rights.

    • The “assault” rifle you are hallucinating about is really just a garden variety semi-automatic rifle that’s been on the market for decades. The fully automatic rifle hasn’t been legal for decades.

      So either you are lying or you are one of those “low information” voters that now make up the majority of the American electorate.

  2. I think that any rational concept of freedom and liberty involves the freedom of small children to attend school without it involving guns and violence on their persons. Perhaps this is a naive idea? It is indeed the American culture that is the at root cause of these episodes! It is what is between the ears of Americans, that is their greatest handicap!

    • Robert,

      I agree, it is our culture, but that has NOTHING to do with weapons. Israel uses armed teachers, and they are both free and safe. Not too long ago, we allowed students to keep weapons in their cars — ON CAMPUS! And when my father was young, in their lockers — and they were free and safe.

      Now I ask you: what has changed since then? It is NOT the role of weapons in our society, that’s for sure.

      • Joe, when I was researching for my comment from the other, I learned that there is a lot of fighting in Israeli schools, but is mostly done with fists and kicks. I could not discern whether it was a Jewish/Muslim thing or not, but I doubt that they attend the same schools, although I could be wrong. Probably a part of what makes them such a tough opponent.
        I can remember when our coach would make two boys who were fighting do it right, and have them gloved up for doing three rounds.
        I wonder how many years the coach would get for doing that these days?

          • Some times the old ways are the best.

            On a related note, the whole outcry against dodge-ball in gym class was misguided. I was one of those skinny nerds, broken nose-piece on the specs and all, so I got targeted by the bigger guys when we played. Hell, I loved the attention, the adrenaline rush. And because we had a better chance in dodgeball than in football to beat the big dudes, my fellow bookworms enjoyed it, too. It was the highlight of my day, seriously.
            But so it goes….

            • There is indeed a lack of comprehension here. G., wouldn’t you want to play dodgeball with the Yanks instead, of um. the North Koreans?! There’s a reason why we had the atomic bomb first. All the fabulous scientists (some Jews… gasp!) fled to America to escape the bounty on their heads. Hitler had a pretty sweet bounty for Einstein. (Hobo hunting was known as Jew hunting.) While they chose a religion as the scapegoat, it is crystal clear that their goal was to push an ideology.

              Einstein was a man of faith. Hmmmm…. Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it?

    • I taught junior high school 20 years ago in Los Angeles. There were LAPD officers assigned to our school. Having a police presence in urban schools has been routine for decades.

      Because our society is decaying at an ever faster pace, what has been routine for the urban poor will probably become routine for White Bread America.

  3. The design of bows and arrows was also to kill quickly, Robert. Same can be said for the propane bottle bombs used in Aurora, CO. Same can be said for the Plan B pill distributed freely throughout the nation.

    Yet I do not hear you hyperventilating about those items. Why?

    • I am having this same argument on Drugsandotherthings site. I told the guy, Barney, that the guns are out there, we can’t wait for the legal system to get rid of them for us, the system can’t; just look at the war on drugs for proof. We have to protect our kids, by any means necessary.

      • Melfamy,

        Joe is blocking our discourse and actively editing the exchange. He is in fact another parasite choosing the direction of the conversation for his own benefit. This message will likely never reach you either!

        • you claim that Joe is editing your comments? you mean when he quotes you, or when they are posted? We have had our differences, but Joe is a believer in the 1st-amendment, he would never do the latter.
          Look, if I could pull a switch, and make ALL guns disappear, I would. But the genie is out of the bottle, and we have to live with the fact that America is an armed society, we have to deal with what is, now what we want it to be. I hate it Robert, I do, but I am dragged to this unhappy conclusion by the facts, I have no choice.

          • Mel,
            Of course magic doesn’t work, and the typical American method is force, force does not always work or work out as you would like. In time and with the right momentum, ideas will change. and the second amendment defence of assault rifles in the hands of lunatics will no longer be an issue. It is a lunatics constitutional right to possess an assault rifle? I and you might not live to see it, but we might begin the momentum of change? Change starts with us?

              • Historically, Liberty was a term used in maritime commerce, where a sailor was given Liberty when the ship was docked at a port. The fact that liberty is not an entitlement by nature, undermines your position that a lunatic has a second amendment right to an assault rifle. The assault rifle is a liberty7 that shouls at least not be afforded a lunatic then?

                • ===The fact that liberty is not an entitlement by nature, undermines your position that a lunatic has a second amendment right to an assault rifle.===

                  RIGHT THERE is where and why you will meet with eternal hostility on this board: because you are a Hobbesian. As such, you do NOT understand liberty.

                  No man can have freedom when it depends on the benevolence of the State.

                  No man can be free when he is deprived of the means to defend his freedom.

                  You understand NOTHING of what you speak — NOTHING!

                  • Then Liberty is not the term you should be using is it? The way it was used in 1776 was not of an entitlement, and yes society does have the right to protect itself from itself, even if that puts restrictions on lunatics!

                    • That is why I suggested in my very first post that the children of sandy hook should have been able to carry assault rifles for self protection. Most people except the NRA would agree. But by extension, 6 year olds are not fit to carry assault rifles, so why would you defend the right of a lunatic adult to have one?

                    • Violation of the 6 year olds second amendment rights, for self defence was established at sandy hook. So if we then give 6 year olds the right to arm in school this will improve things? Are teachers to become sharp shooters armed with pistolas when an intruder with bad intention enters the building, or are you all just missing the point? Arm yourselves to the teeth, its a tough way to live, trust no one, because everyone is a potentially armed lunatic with an assault rifle? Where is the freedom for people in that?

                    • And so the social life will continue to be one increasingly dependant upon social skill being the willingness to use and employ weapons against each other. There is always someone willing to push the envelope, isn’t there? Open arguments enforced, at the very least by the use of and intimidation of guns? Is American society prepared and willing for open war on itself socially? Sounds like the wild west to me partner!

              • Mel,
                Thanks! Most of the posts are written by me, but the last four or so are reprints of stuff that is interesting. I, apparently, to a world class scientist friend of mine who has been a professional academic for decades, he thinks I am incredibly insightful about science, and has admitted to using several of my ideas by incorporating them into NIH research grants of his. So, do not dismiss your mind, it is quite remarkable, if your intention is correct. You can yourself push the boundaries of potential, and make a contribution that is important! :)

            • Robert,

              Interesting you infer this a viper pit to “free thinkers” — implying you are the free thinker — when you, yourself, have proven to be dogmatic in your own thinking.

              Interesting that you should claim I am “editing” the discourse, or that you hold positions I do not understand when you have been stating things I explained on the RNL long ago — and in much greater clarity than yourself, I might add.

              Like I said, you are wailing away in blind ignorance here, and the long-term reader will know it. Greg can certainly attest to my attacks on the corporate structure, AND to my having called this a Fascist nation for more than a few years now. Others who have been here longer than yourself will notice other assertions you’ve made that are actually in agreement with my positions — only, as I just said, I can actually explain my position. I’ve yet to see you do that. In fact, I’ve yet to see you do much more than post unsupported assertions and make ad hominem attacks.

          • Wow. A 30-minute reprieve from the festiveness of the festivities, and here is where the action is. G., please know that I love you and I truly hope you’re having a great Christmas……… ya Heathen! ;) If you’re not, I need to bring you over to hang with my family….the twins had one of their ultimate battles. See; growing up, it was Cocoa Puffs and clothes. We’ve now moved on to Karen Carpenter and Celine Dion. I should be the one bitching. Everyone bought me large Marge clothes! WTF?

      • You are right about that Greg. And they cannot find 11 million illegal aliens. There is no dispute they couldn’t find 300 million guns.

        • And here is an inspirational message for all

          Of Life And Time

          We don’t have much time, as time is not generous
          Nobody lives more than the time that is lent to us
          But time also needs life, its passage to tell
          for life is the rope that pulls on time’s bell

          Our lives are measured in time, by varying arcs
          But only by life is time’s passage remarked
          In absence of life, time still would be there
          but nothing would know it, nothing would care

          Though against time sometimes it seems useless to battle
          you must still seize life’s reins, swing into the saddle
          and ride with abandon upon life’s sturdy mount
          make your life matter, make all your time count

          -Greg Cobb

  4. You should retread my words, handguns and assault rifles are by design made for the quick and efficient slaughter of people, and for no other purpose. You do realize that it was not a bow and arrow chosen by the maniac in Connecticut? Bows are not designed for the same purpose, either are cars.

    • Maybe it is you that should re-read my words, Robert. You obviously have no concept if what you are attempting to allude too.

      It’s the same old tired argument that you are utterly unwilling, or too ignorant to toss out there. Eventually we make these circles with you, and your caliber of people and it comes to fruition the argument that today’s “modern weaponry could not have been envisioned by the founding fathers”, and you know what? You are full of shit.

      The “blunderbuss argument” that you, and yours proffer does not account for the fact of how utterly damaging those, and muskets of their day were. Many egregious, and catastrophic wounds were the result of those weapons, and they were just as genuinely feared in those does as today’s guns are now … and even worse. Why? Each shot usually resulted in an amputation of a limb (and resultant death by infection), or just simply a mass of none healing wounds as a result of the multiple shots impacting the victim. The real difference? Penicillin.

      Your presumption of bows and arrows is utterly false. A mass of people all throughout history designed, and used them for just that specific purpose. As an example, if you have ever attended the military’s war college (as I have), you would have understood The Battle of Thermopylae where on day 3, where Xerxes ordered is arches to rain arrows down on nearly 20,000 Persians, and 2,000 Greeks resulting in a massive slaughter of epic proportions.

      Now what was that about bows, and arrows again … Robert?

      Any object, weaponized … is designed to kill as many people as possible, in as short a time period as available.

    • Robert,

      STRAW MAN! Those same weapons are designed for the efficient defense of life and liberty and, to that end, do not always have to even be fired. So your assertion is fallacious.

      • And of course the second amendment provides a vehicle to allow lunatics to arm themselves with assault rifles and slaughter little children with ammunition designed to eradicate vermin, and a weapon d3esigned for the battlefield…it was a fucking grade school man! George Washington never intended that, and he is rolling in his grave right now at your attitude!

        • It is simply incredible, to my mind that the lunatic killed all those kids with ammunition designed to blow up vermin. He made a clear statement, and it is not one that I can ever accept!

          • This thing breaks my heart. Children are a far cry from vermin, in fact at 6 they are still cute, and need a lot of direction. Corrupting the minds of children is a sin. The psyche of all the children in America, has lost its innocence because of this. The cancer will spread because they are the future and the statement made powerfully, and thank god I will be dead before the karma comes back in this next generation.

            • I think of snotty stupid little noses, almost frostbit from the cold outside, entering warm homes to comforts of mother and family.
              I think of childish thoughts, and how amusing they are to those hardened by the realities of life and time. I think in the grand design, they were innocents, slaughtered by a mad men with legions supporting him both in theory and in practice. The death culture, it truly must be.

              • Einstein said that the most important conclusion that anyone can come to is that the world is a safe place. The children and people can hardly conclude that now can they given recent events? So much for squandering away the human potential, and talents of at least one generation. But the same, a lunatic has the same second amendment rights, and this is a dictate of biblical authority! Guess what, not everyone believes in the biblical authority of interpretations of the US constitution now do they? Apparently dogmatists refer back to it constantly?

                • Robert,

                  The evil you decry is committed by those who also reject the very authority you now mock.

                  Thus, YOU ARE that to which you pretend to object — and you cannot even see it because you are blind to your own reflection in the morality mirror.

                  • Joe,
                    I already said that I have hunted, killed and eaten my own game since I was 12. I love being an integral part of the natural order which is my right, the same as a wolf, or a lion, or a coyote. But men are not coyotes, and we prosper because we organize on levels congruent with our survival. This was the intent of the founding fathers, that we could be happy living together as a nation. The intent was not to distort their ideas promoting one special interest to the detriment of the rest of society. We evolved for many years rejecting theocracies, and monarchies, freely choosing to become self governing under the concept of reason. The words and language of the times have changed in meaning since 1776, but the spirit is still revered by those who understand it!

                • Robert, the U.S. Constitution is the law of the land. It seems to me you have two choices…either work to amend the Constitution. through legal means, or quit your whining and get the fuck out.( Excuse my French ;) )

        • Robert, everyone shares your pain about the children of that school. But no matter how much you hyperventilate and try to blame it on an inanimate object (look up the word if you have too), ban such weapons will never solve the morality issue it took for the assailant to levee his assault on those children.

          You see Robert, guns have no brain. They have no heart, nor do they have a soul. They cannot think, they cannot feel, and they cannot weep. All a gun can do is lie there …. until someone picks it up.

          So who’s fault is it really, Robert? The gun?

          Thank you very much.

          • Guns are endowed with the intent of their design by their creator, just like us. They have energy, just like us. If you give a kid a toy assault rifle his behaviour is influenced by the energy it contains in its design. If you give a kid a toy hunting weapon, then the kids behaviour is different. The kid is the same, and yet the behaviour is changed! One behaviour hunts squirrels, and the other demonstrates homicide!

            • Robert,

              INANIMATE objects have “spirits” that influence the animate???

              Then, pray tell, how can you blame ANYONE for ANYTHING? After all, the rocks made them do it…or the wind, or the ground, or whatever spirits were acting on them. All I know is that you just defeated EVERYTHING you have been saying. What’s more, you’ll never understand it because you are NOT in contact with objective reality.

              So, I WILL agree with you on one thing regarding the 2nd Amendment: YOU have NO business owning or ever coming near a firearm — of ANY kind — EVER!

              • A rock has no intent by design. A human crafted assault rifle has an intent by design for the soul purpose of destroying human life. It has a ill energy a rock will never by default have. The energy is the idea behind the assault rifle. Kids behaviour with toy assault rifles is the indisputable truth, kids know it!

                • The simple act of choosing to surround yourself by assault rifles changes your energy. You become what you choose to become. To quote Shakespeare tragedy of Macbeth, …” he which is was wished for until he was” . And if so, god help us all!

                  • To my mind human life is special, it does not compare to a squirrel or a coyote…the human potential is almost sacred, or maybe it is sacred and I am not entirely convinced of it yet. Regardless of my belief, the truth is it may well be special. And I may not agree with you or what you say, but we are both evolving. Hopefully we can sing the same tune some day. Until then, Velis et Remis.

                • Joe,
                  The mind is not billiard balls and behaves differently. Inanimate objects can have energies simply by the intention of their design. The mind knows this. Have you spent your whole life in a vacuum?

                  • And yes this is open war, you second amendment asshole monkeys just allowed 20 babies to be sacrificed on your alter of the stupid…so enough is enough!!!!

            • What the (censored) are you babbling about?

              An inanimate object is endowed with NOTHING for it can neither inherit anything or possess anything. The gun is a tool. Like a hammer, like a club, like a wrench, bomb, or any other tool has developed (i.e., did not occur naturally to begin with). These things, good or bad, are nothing more than tools created by humans … not God.

              Robert, in all seriousness … you need to learn the language, amongst a great many things. You simply … make no sense.

                • K, a nuclear bomb is an incredibly powerful device whos soul purpose by design(and the purpose of design is very important) is to kill mass numbers of humanity on the wholesale scale. Follow me so far? It is an inanimate object, but it also has an intrinsic energy as a tool. The only possible main utility of this tool is its designed peurpose, which is to kill people. And since we are people, and it is only people who have nuclear bombs, the default mentality of owning one is the anticipation of using it for the designed purpose? I do not see how you can argue that one, the same for assault rifles. Should every nut bar in the US own a nuclear bomb as a second amendment right? Or should only a select few own one, discriminating against the insane? Or all americans equally insane and no distinction is required?

                • Apparently you cannot think at all.

                  I really wish there was a diagnosis code for “dim-wit”. Yours is a special case, and I would take on your primary health care.

                  As it is, just stay out of my ER. :)

                    • Tell me auger, do you sit around on your bed all night oiling your assault weapons fantasizing about shooting people who disagree with you like I do?

                    • I am sure you can teach people like me a serious lesson, shoot them till they have no minds left? That works, and saves the effort of debating doesn’t it?

                    • No sir. I am a healthcare practitioner. I learned by practicing on monkeys as you.

                      Are we clear on this? Good.

                      Now, until you can participate in reality, and not some proto-Marxist fictitious false syllogism, I will continue to discourse with McPherson, Greg, and a couple of the other liberal minds.

                      At least, they stand above the status of intellectual peanut. Sorry your genetic makeup couldn’t afford you that luxury Robert.

                      Some folks should have never procreated in the first place.

                      Good day.

                    • From that far down, I can see why you would think so. Hard for you to see above the clouds. :)

                      In closing for the night Robert, I would proffer that you make a horrible pundit for your cause, but I am quite certain you would make a fantastic paperweight.

                      Good night. Scotch time.

                    • Utah is the biggest joke in healthcare in the union, caused by excessive inbreeding from the Mormons I assume! Go have sex with your sister after you get her drunk!

                    • A young child given a toy assault rifle will play at killing his mother, his father, his sister, and any of his friends who venture within range. A child given a toy hunting rifle will pretend to hunt squirrels, ground hogs, lions, and tigers. Inanimate objects do emit different energy simply by the intent of their design. Ask any child, they know!

                    • You are not tough enough to be a nurse, in fact you are not tough enough to be a florist! God help the death by medicine, kill me first!

                • It is a lack of comprehension that is the problem here. Sure you do not think Iran or North Korea should have the bomb? That is discrimination under the second amendment. Discriminate away with US citizens as far as I can tell, none of them should own the assault rifle or the nuclear bomb as far as I am concerned! Are you guys fn kidding?

  5. Yes bows, kitchen knives, baseball bats, and even cars have utilitarian value and can also kill people, so what? The ONLY utilitarian value of handguns and assault rifles is their intended design for slaughtering people, that’s it!

    • “Yes bows, kitchen knives, baseball bats, and even cars have utilitarian value and can also kill people, so what? The ONLY utilitarian value of handguns and assault rifles is their intended design for slaughtering people, that’s it!”

      You do realize that people hunt with handguns, and sport shoot with them as well, right? There are handguns specifically designed for those purposes, and those purposes only. Go do a bit more research.

      To the “assault rifle” – you need to clearly define it for me please, and I strongly suggest you do a bit of research before you embarrass yourself here by answering “AR-15″. Fair warning for you … Robert.

  6. Robert, you are completely INCORRECT.

    “In 1785 Thomas Jefferson wrote to his fifteen-year-old nephew, Peter Carr, regarding what he considered the best form of exercise: “…I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.”[1].”

    Thomas Jefferson letter to his school age nephew. http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/firearms

    The 2nd Amendment was enshrined so that every person capable of responsible control and use of a firearm, regardless of age, would have access to the same type and kind of firearms in use by the government’s military so citizens could restrain tyranny.

    • “You are already living under tyranny, and it has nothing to do with guns! The corporate, political, and government structure has already beaten you!”

      Do try … really hard … to stay … on topic … Robert.

      Thank you.

      • Here is “their argument”:

        ” I do not believe in being responsible for myself, much less my friends and loved ones. So I will choose to advocate to disarm all LAW ABIDING citizens who understand and believe in self preservation.”

        That is their argument.

        These “no backbone”, morally corrupt, people KNOW and Understand, CRIMINALS will no more abide by a law of disarmament than they will abide by the other laws like MURDER, THEFT, RAPE, etc.

        DISGUSTING & SAD.

        • Notice how once called out on his bullshit, he flipped to a stupid talking point, and then did not come back?

          We have a word for that …. shamed.

      • “So then why take away another freedom ??”

        DonAmeche – because that’s what progressives/socialist do. Please do not make the mistake that this latest round of “gun ban discussion” has anything remotely to do with protecting our children from the liberal perspective. Oh no, this about seizing upon an opportunity to push us further down their progressive path.

  7. The real crux of the argument is, kitchen knives, baseball bats, hunting bows and rifles, axes, automobiles, propane cylinders all have a primary utilitarian value, but can be weapons if the intent of the user become onerous. Assault weapons, and handguns have but one utilitarian value, and that is to kill, and kill people alone. Simply by ownership of one of these weapons demonstrates at the very least your abstract intention, which cannot be denied. I think it harmful to the psyche, and society, simply by association, and of course society has a right to protect itself from such harm.

    • Robert,

      Are you REALLY trying to tell us that inanimate objects can change people’s’ hearts?

      Oh, wait, sure you do. You’re a Leftist, so you think giving people more money will suddenly make them like any other business owner, so why wouldn’t you believe giving someone a gun will turn them into a mass murderer.
      =======================================

      Folks, we’re screwed. :-)

    • You speak like a person witha lot of pent up anger, …..and like one who is intent on controlling others and making sure others Bend to your will…..your rhetoric is actually a bit frightening, almost violent.

      “have but one utilitarian value, and that is to kill, and kill people alone”
      “Simply by ownership of one of these weapons demonstrates at the very least your abstract intention, which cannot be denied.”
      “I think it harmful to the psyche, and society, simply by association, ”

      Simply by ownership..demonstrates intention……………..One ultitarian value…to kill people…………..Cannot be denied…….Harmful..simply by association.

      These are the words and NON-reasoning of a Fascist…………….GUILT BY ASSOCIATION !!!!

      It is persons like you and Arguments like this that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written to protect people from.

    • Let’s see, all firearms are designed as TOOLS.

      Since you clearly DO NOT understand the history of the firearm, or the best uses of same.

      Robert, the FIREARM is a tool invented and constantly improved to ensure the user’s survival and enjoyment of LIFE.

      The very same designs that happen to make a firearm easier to use, more accurate, more reliable, also happen to make the firearm a more effective tool for the user.

      Whether it is hunting, practicing, protecting your family, pets, livestock, property, and oneself, from animal predators such as coyotes, wild hogs, mountain lions, bears, or 2 legged HUMAN predators, CRIMINALS.

      With Robert’s logic, since women have the tools to be prostitutes, ALL women are prostitutes, so we should rid society of the ills of prostitution by ridding society of all women.

      Robert,
      Truly, I feel sorry for you and your lack of understanding or ability to THINK & REASON.

      I have worked in the law enfrcement / criminal law field for nearly 20 years. Funny thing about lawbreakers, THEY DO NOT follow the law. They won’t follow a law to turn in the tools of their trade, firearms. So your support of laws to disarm people, will only affect “law-abiding” people’s, the very people you DO NOT have to FEAR or be worried about.

      When the law abiding are outnumbered by the LAWLESS, then the country will be controlled by gangs or cartels.

      Personally, I DO NOT want to live on a failed state like MEXICO.

      • My friend, the US is a failed state that was unwilling to protect itself from the harm caused by greed and fraud. The crash of 2008 was caused by corporations, it has brought almost every state in the union to the verge of bankruptcy, and every country in Europe is on the verge of bankruptcy. No charges ever laid, the government bailed it all out, and the taxpayer for generations will be on the hook for this. The business leaders responsible were never charged or punished, or penalized in any way. In fact many have positions in the Obama administration, rewarded? Government action is aligned with corporate interests, and not for the people. Welcome to the reintroduction of slavery!
        And all this and yet, you who claim to be the protectors of Liberty and Freedom, never fired a shot! Welcome to the machine!

        • Robert,

          If you are going to focus solely on corporations and dismiss or ignore the GOVERNMENT greedy and corruption in the 2008 crash, or the individual greed and corruption of the “free sh*t army” that supported those politicians, then you and I will never be able to hold a rational conversation about this issue because…well, as you say it, you are too dogmatic on this issue to do so. ;-)

          • The agendas of government is becoming the agendas of corporations. The US government is a corporation itself, and so aligns itself naturally, not with the people, but with the corporations. Eventually, as cities, states, and countries default on their debt obligations, corporations will gain ownership of the government and the people and all the resources and inherited wealth of evey nation. This seems to be what is occurring. GMO foods, are not about feeding more people, don’t be stupid!

                  • YES! But I don’t think YOU do.

                    Put your reactionary self in neutral for a minute and try to follow me.

                    Assume what you just said is true: corporations are only what WE allow them to become. Same for the govt. (you agreed govt is essentially a corporation). Now, if WE allowed them to become what they are, THEN HOW DO THEY CONTROL ANYTHING!!!

                    Do you see the contradiction in what YOU are saying now? I do. I’ve seen it from your first post because I’ve been fighting this line of reasoning since my days in philosophy school.

            • Robert,

              Corporations have never and will NEVER control govt. because govt. has the monopoly on force. It will ALWAYS be the other way around. Just ask BP how things work out when the govt. turns on you. Or any of the other companies the govt. did NOT favor who were allowed to go out of business or forced to accept govt. money so that the govt. could gain the attached control over those companies.

              You have a reversed view of reality, my friend.

              • So you do not really need private citizens to guard against government, and you are helpless as such, because the government has a monopoly on force? I thought machine gun toting slobs were our final defence against a totalitarian government. Sort of explains why they have been so darn quiet doesn’t it?

              • The reality is paper money is a form of government debt and the only value it has is that governments charge tax to their citizens. You upon birth are a slave to government because of your inherited right to owe the government paper money. Corps are aligned with corporate governments because they increase the rate of the turnover of capitol. Every time capital exchanges occur this is a taxable event. This relationship creates apparent government wealth, for now! This relationship[ is way too close for comfort, and is indeed evolving to its nefarious conclusion. Good luck avoiding totalitarianism, you are allowing it to grow in ways that you are entirely unawares!

        • Robert,
          Respectfully, you appear to be curious and sincere. So I will suggest a little enlightenment for you below.

          All of this nation’s current ills stem from an over reaching, UN-constitutional acting, central government.

          The STATE, gives corporations the FAVORS to have an advantage over others who do not benefit the STATE or it’s persons in office. (these very actions violate the concept of every person is created equal and equal treatment under the law).

          This is NOT Constitutional. This is not cronyism.
          This is not the fault of “corporations”.

          This is FASCISM. Joe has written posts explaining what fascism IS.

          Please read OUR Declaration of Independence.

          http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration.html

          Now:
          Read peruse this posts and click on the links contained in them;

          http://therionorteline.com/2012/06/10/u-s-constitution-can-i-really-read-it/

          http://therionorteline.com/2012/06/12/constitution-limited-powers-by-design/

          Good luck; I wish you all the best in “the search for TRUTH.”. Not propaganda.

  8. Cambat field politics is the direction of US society on its current path. Machine gun toting security guards in grade schools, and soon to be in nursery schools and eventually in nurseries to protect infants. Escalating combat weapon ownership will only increase the level of an already police state as violence and intimidation escalate as weaponry is further used as a social tool, even more than it already is. Bullies and intimidators have always been around, and it takes real courage to confront them without weapons or the threat of weapons. Welcome to the advancement of the police state in America, and the dissolution of civil liberty, because no one can be trusted and everyone is armed and dangerous!

    • AMG! ROFLMAO!

      Robert, are you SERIOUS!

      Oh, wait, let me guess. This is ALL Bush’s fault — Bush and the Republicans, right?

      Dude, let me stop laughing for a minute….

      OK, now let me try to explain why what you are pointing to has been intentional. Have you ever read these words?

      “Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by a power within them or by a power without them; either by the Word of God or by the strong arm of man; either by the Bible or by the bayonet.”
      –Robert Winthrop, Speaker of the U. S. House,

      All you have done is put your finger on the ETERNAL truth that Winthrop was expressing (though you may not realize it). But look what — or rather — WHO has been kicked out of our public life — GOD! Now, can you see the causal effect here, or will it STILL elude you? :-)

      • Joe,
        Social interaction is becoming a combat field on every level, and this is not being diffused by so many people owning and acquiring combat designed weapons, this is not truly social?

        • Robert,

          You do not seem to understand this, but you are describing the result of 50 years of unchecked Progressivism. Owning weapons in this environment is a MUST! It is the ONLY way that an individual in a “politically disfavored” group (i.e. the 1%, conservatives, TEA Party member, etc) can be assured of any sort of personal protection. You decry fascism, yet you ignore its practical effects because you can only see 1/2 of the problem: the corporation.

          My friend, you are SERIOUSLY confused about what is happening in our society and why. Now, mind you, I am NOT calling you ignorant, nor am I saying you are not a thinker. Clearly you are thinking and trying to figure things out, but you have not looked to every aspect of the problem. You might want to try that as, right now, you are reasoning as a 2-dimensional being in a 3-dimensional world.

  9. Truly free men are controlled by the ideas they align themselves with by choice. Be careful of the ideas you commit to, reject, or ignore, they all contribute to what you choose to become!

    • Robert,

      I’m not going to disagree with that. I’m just not sure you quite understand who the “enemy” is here. The societal decay you are bemoaning was intentionally created. You call it combative politics, but that is EXACTLY what Alinsky called for — and what Obama taught. Now, who would you rather stand with: the founders and their notion of individual rights and liberty, or Alinsky and his collectivist cabal with their ideas of group/Party rights and their “divide-and-concquore” politics?

  10. Joe,

    I think that when you fully commit or reject to ideas that you personally do not understand well enough, that the result is also unpredictable and not understood. I think this is the root problem with the US, and the examples are everywhere. I think it starts with us, not to be drones, fitting into the system laid out before us at large. We need not be cogs in the machinery presented before and thrust upon us. We need to go beyond the dogmas and do what very few are caplable of these days, and think originally, it all out for ourselves. At least if we are wrong, it not be because if insincere efforts, or promoting some misguided or nefarious doctrine.

    • Robert,

      Again, I will not disagree with you — at least, not in principle. But there is a ‘correct” way to reason and a LOT of incorrect ways. We no longer teach our children the correct way (it was once known as “right reason”). Today, we teach people to think according to how they “feel” about something.

      There are two sides to everything. So I say again: while your words sound as though I am in agreement with you, I’m not sure I am because I suspect you and I are actually on opposite sides of the coin — just using the same language to describe two different ideals.
      :-)

    • Robert,
      Then why have you adopted the FAILED ideas and ideals of STATISTS and wish to remove the only tools free and good people can obtain to ensure LIFE and thereby LIBERTY ?

      You are the one who has adopted and advocates for policies of death and destruction where the POWERFUL RULE because they can FORCE their will upon weaker and poorer individuals.

  11. I am sure we disagree a lot more than most on this weapons thing. here is a quick piece I wrote last year, was ticked off at something or other, seems related…
    Complicate to profit is the slogan of our age. Disinformation, fads, trendy gimmicks and bold faced lies assault us at every step, as the drones pursue their interests while abusing ours.

    Grease the Machine!

    Trust no-one, not even the bearers of light can get it right in a meaningful consistent way and ultimately they sell you down the road in pursuit of their own advantages. Does your doctor, your lawyer, your fitness instructor, your vitamin salesman really know what they are doing. Are they doing good work for you, or for themselves?

    We are being trained to be dependant, to be drones in the machinery of generating profits for somebody else. Raising someone else’s standard of life at the impairment of our own.

    There are also the ranks of the programmed automatons, who parrot anything and everything they hear that is popular, willingly lubricating the droning gears of the propaganda machinery for their masters.

    I am tired of listening to people ignorantly crusading on about this or that, and haven’t got a grip on much at all aside from parroting and hysteria. Their mouths being in fast forward and their brains in rewind as they sell themselves and anyone who will listen.

    It would be nice if people took the time to think things out conscientiously for a change. Separate from the capricious outside paradigms that are leading them to ruin; paid their dues, ignoring the quick and easy answers laid out for them, in exchange for the hard fought for answers of value.

    • Robert,

      You are correct: we probably disagree about most everything.

      I’m not sure you even realize this, but that piece you posted is pure Marx. If you see the entire world as the product of materialist pursuit of wealth and exploitation of everyone in the process of that pursuit, then your world view is flawed. You are only seeing a small part of the larger picture.

      BTW: if this is how you see things, then you have painted yourself into a society from which there can NEVER be any “escape.” For, if all private people only seek to exploit for personal gain, it is folly in the extreme to just assume those in government will not do the same. In fact, if you are logically consistent, then you MUST assume government will be the same as business, in which case, perpetual tyranny is the only possible outcome in the world you see.

      let me know when you want to understand the founders’ world. I suspect it is not what you believe it to be :-)

  12. The government is a corporation, and exhibits almost the same corporate culture as do business corporations. Between the social culture of the US and these cultures, the US culture is defined from both top down and bottom up.
    I have never red Marx or anything, but I have read the book that provided the US constitution with its ideas. Written by. 16 th century Sephardic Jew living in holland, Baruch Spinozas. The Theologico Political Treatise is considered one of the supreme achievements of the human mind. The US constitution, and most western democracies have only plagerized this work.

    • I have read Spinoza too…..you are grossly misinterpreting him and in the Founders were very clear about what informed their Ideas and Spinoza was NOT the primary ideological source by any means.

      This is a quote from the 1st Federalist paper by Hamilton….
      “…It has been frequently remaked that it seems to have been reserved to the PEOPLE of this country, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good government from reflection and choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend for their political constitutions on accident and force…”

      There is nothing in Spinoza even close to this…..In fact Dutch / Jewish Spinoza’s Tractatus that I think you were trying to reference was influenced by Medieval Jewish Mystic?philosopher Maimonides and English Th. Hobbes ( Of Utopian Fame )…..and thus Spinoza is much liked by the MARXISTS….From Karl Marx on up through to the 20th Century.

      From your other posts it is CLEAR you are a Socialist apologist who advocate a totaliarian State control vis Demonizing your opposition. So your adulation of Spinoza is no surprise and helps locate you a basically a Leftist who advocates for LESS freedom and State Control over everyone.

            • Spinoza is incredible. The implications of modern quantum physics did not even elude him, and for a man from the mid 1600 s it is remarkable to say the least. He was hundreds of years ahead of his time, and yet the world still has to catch up with his thought. I know Spinoza, do you?
              The only other figure to have ever insinuated at Spinoza’s greatness is Nicola Tesla, and only history will be the final judge on that!

              • Robert,

                the man believed god and nature were one. That means that the implications of modern quantum mechanics TOTALLY eluded him. Modern science has all but dictated the necessity for a transcendent Creator — a Creator outside of and not ruled by the 4-dimensional, material limitations of this universe.

                NO govt. system based off the notion that god and nature are one can be said to be anything BUT tyrannical — as exhibited by the behavior who are claiming “environmentalism” as their god and cause today. Their solutions are ALWAYS “Let me be king and YOU do as I say.”

              • How well do you know him? Why was he banned from his religion? Why did he sue his sister for inheritance money? Was he really asexual or just a closet homosexual? And why the hello didn’t he put his name on his own works? He is a question mark for me.

                I’ll not deny the man’s genius, nor will I deny his character …..or lack thereof.

                • I would never claim a man was a homo because he didn’t like a particular girl. That is his heterosexual right! But aside from that you are blowing smoke my dear!

                • Only on his sexuality. Quite frankly, I could give a rat’s ass. I’m pretty sure he got the royal boot from the Jews for being a flamer. (And he did get the royal boot.) Because of the persecution of the Jews and “free” thinking gay jews at that time, I believe he “expanded” his ways of thinking, if you will. Note his supporters. His ideologies turned. (The words in quotes are key words…..perhaps B. will get it/)

                  Yes, I very well could be blowing smoke. That’s just not what the tea leaves say…. ;)

                • Kells, Spinoza was no flamer, but of course you do not like facts, so why bother. In fact he lived one of the most impeccable lives of any philosopher ever, and is much admired for it. It sounds to me like you cannot wrap your mind around anything much except a wiener!

          • The 1600’s are the 17th Century…….just as 1950 was in the 20th Century.

            Since my first correction to YOU obviously DIDN’T alleviate any of YOUR confusion…..I might suggest that you take Joe’s advise and go in to Neutral as he said….and try and Listen to what he is saying outside of your Strong inbred Biases.

            You are letting Marxist Class ideology and structural dialectic get in the way reading, thinking and understanding……you are filtering data, history, ideas and even conversation through a very rigid stencil of entrenched assumption and ideology.

            • Don,

              Robert is much more “dogmatic” than he realizes or can realize because he has embraced a world view that inhibits his ability to see his own reflection in the morality mirror.

              He’s another shinning example of what I call the 180 degree rule.

        • Don, there was a fella here that all the boys got very upset with. He was called Lovegrove. M. called him Loveglove and banned him. Lovegrove’s avatar is Spinoza. Spinoza is an interesting character, but I think some simple basics about his true character escape those who adore him.

          Don, because you actually know of one of my favourite shows, I’ll post one of my favourite scenes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7avWjBmRXu0

          • Kells…LoveGlove ?…..Love-Glove..???………I’m trying to be good Kells…I realy am….I’m a’gonna leave that one for after the Holy High days of the season…..

            I have a hankering for a Waldorf salad…now LOL……Doesn’t “the Basil” so remind U of the Penultimate Gov’t employee though ?… :- )) .

  13. What I am trying to say is, drug companies for example, are not truly interested in curing or alleviating illness. They are corporations which by definition are only interested in profit. In fact I believe their products do more harm than good. There are many examples of causing harm whith the only real concern being marketing, and profit. If that is a Marxist attitude I have for simply recognizing the facts? Clearly this was the case with the tobacco companies for decades, and was finally resolved some years ago in the courts. And I see these as the standard of function, and not the exception to the norm.
    Most American corporations exhibit the ethics of crack dealers, in short!


    • What I am trying to say is, drug companies for example, are not truly interested in curing or alleviating illness. They are corporations which by definition are only interested in profit. In fact I believe their products do more harm than good. There are many examples of causing harm whith the only real concern being marketing, and profit. If that is a Marxist attitude I have for simply recognizing the facts? Clearly this was the case with the tobacco companies for decades, and was finally resolved some years ago in the courts. And I see these as the standard of function, and not the exception to the norm.
      Most American corporations exhibit the ethics of crack dealers, in short!

      Robert,

      You might should go back and read what I have written on the RNL concerning corporations :-)

  14. but I have read the book that provided the US constitution with its ideas. Written by. 16 th century Sephardic Jew living in holland, Baruch Spinozas.

    Robert, I’m not sure who taught you that this was the founders notion of proper government, but I suspect you have been done a gross disservice. I have been researching and reading the founders for the majority of my life, and I have never heard this guy’s name in conjunction with their ideas. If anything, this guy was the father of HOBBES and his ideology — which has dominated European thinking ever since. But that is a far cry from the founders.

    Our founders embraced Natural Law and Natural Rights according to LOCKE’S understanding, and that came straight out of the book of Romans. Our founders referenced Locke and the Bible more than any other source, and then Cicero — who ALSO developed an ideology very similar to Locke’s and did so without the benefit of the Bible (which actually affirms what the Bible teaches). What’s more, this is not my “opinion,” the founders were explicit in telling us they got their ideas for government from Scripture (Franklin flat out said so after the convention).

    I would strongly but kindly suggest you might want to actually read the founders in their own hand rather than the garbage that modern propagandists (they call themselves historians) have been spewing out since the late 1800’s. :-)

  15. Fascist, Socialist, Marxist, Liberal, Angry, none of these terms even remotely describes me. They are all terms that flow from the script of some kind of doctrine or other, and I hardly am a dogmatist. But what does that matter anyway, it is hardly the basis for building a rational discussion, and amounts to nothing more than blowing smoke?

    • Robert,

      If you are going to assert that these terms are useless in relation to a political discussion, then why are you bothering to type: your words would have no more relation to communicating meaning in your paradigm than those terms would to describing your political views.

      I also find it interesting that, in spite of all your protesting, you are actually very dogmatic: you have been dogmatic in your insistence that these terms do not apply to you and your assertions that those who use them are dogmatic.

      I guess that — by your own words — this means you’re just blowing smoke??? :-)

    • I don’t understand your unwillingness to be lumped in with all the other Oligarchs you listed. Is there a stigma attached to those words? If there is please inform as to how you wish to be labeled. Most in our present government and their supporters, now feel safe enough to come out of the closet and declare their true political backgrounds. Tyranny has many names that change to mask it’s true design.

      • Several are self contradictory, and so make no sense when you contrast them. So who is right? I would know better than you without giving a complete life description, so in short, I say they do not know me at all!

        • Robert,

          Which ones are self contradictory? And how does that make them contradictory to each other?

          Again, you are striking me as a person who still needs to do a lot of research and thinking things through. That is neither attack nor insult: just informed observation from someone who has been doing the same for 20+ years and realizes he still hasn’t scratched the surface of what he needs to know himself.

              • Joe, he doesn’t. He’s only interested in the application of monikers to you (i.e., your new title of “flaming fag”).

                Honestly Joe, did you expect anything else? I mean, c’mon man! The moment you push their logic against a corner, that’s the typically predictable response you will get. It doesn’t really matter which liberal you are talking too, it all ends up the same.

                Sometimes I think we are looney for even attempting to reason with them.

                So let’s just apply a moniker to Robert, and move on. How’s Robby-hewie sound?

        • A non-answer to a valid request; so we are left to make our own determination as to your political beliefs from what you have written. Do not complain when you are labeled as something you feel you are not. Because it sounds as if you are an Anarchist wishing to tear down the established with no regards for what is to come after you tear it down.

          • Triper,

            I beginning to think you just hit the nail on the head, which would also explain the “smell” of Marx in Robert’s posts. Marx and anarchism have a great deal more in common than most people who have never actually read Marx will ever understand.

              • The Liberal Left will eventually tell you who they are…..usually in Flowing, Colorful metaphors.

                …And….another one Bites the Dust…

                • Yeah Don, you have to love their benevolence.

                  Oh, they’ll bitch, moan, belly-ache, call you names like “flaming fag”, but God forbid you retaliate. You see, liberty is only for liberals. Didn’t you know that?

  16. Joe, if you are to believe what Robert says about the condition of mankind, we do not have the wisdom to rule ourselves; and should leave that task up to a committee of these same unwise humans.

    As for his rants about corporations; his descriptions evokes the image of the crony capitalism of the Fascist States of Europe of recent history. Something we are slipping into with ever increasing speed. Our founders were no advocates of the corporation as evidenced by the control the Sovereign States were given over the corporation.

    • Triper,

      We’ve been fascist for decades. And I am well aware that the founders rejected the notion of corporatism and artificial entities. I have written about it here many times — and drawn fire from my conservative friends in the process, I might add :-)

      • Just started reading RNL. Got the idea that you were of that opinion and yes it is unpopular with many conservatives because it is a meme of the OWS Anarchists. And I too have experienced this dislike for the position. I think it is because the emerging conservative movement likes to think that they can tap into some of the corporate political funds for support without being bought.

        • I don’t think it’s that simple…….the emerging Conservative movement is actually part of a growing trend going back many decades and thus is NOT as homogeneous as newer members think nor as the left thinks.

    • The ideas you commit too determines who you become. Society itself is defined by the ideas of it’s population. Your contribution is what you believe, reject, and ignore! This is your contribution to humanity and what it manifests itself as.. If the ideas are not well thought through, then the result will be undependable, success will depend upon luck!

        • You are all just amazing, incredible products of the US educational system, when you are all done exercising your rights, you’ll be back living in trees. Id say caves, but trees seem more appropriate somehow! Monkeys!

          • Robert. Thanks for your omnipotent commentary. I do appreciate your clairvoyance, really I do.

            Care to share anymore benevolent comments so that I will have someone to pound on before the next kickoff?

            Edit: “You are a mental defective, cant waste any more energy on you, have a good life! Will finish blocking your drivel shortly! ;)” <— what happened to this promise?

          • And yes The Monkey Party exists, and it is in Africa, and it is you! IT HAPPENS TO BE A VIABLE FORM OF POLITCAL LABELING I AM NOW EMPLOYING, ADDS LOTS TO ANY ARGUMENT!

  17. Once upon a time paper money had tangible value. If you had a one pound note from the bank of England, it was a promissory note that you could exchange it for a certain amount of silver or gold. These days, all it promises is an exchange for another one pound note. So if you reason it out, paper money is a non interest bearing form of government debt, and the ONLY reason it has any value whatsoever is the fact that we all pay taxes. And because of this fact, for all practice reasons, we are in fact born in debt to the government. This is why the economies of the world work, the inherited concept of debt. A concept itself may seem to be nothing, but the fact that everyone plays along ensures the entire world economy!

  18. American culture is full of aggressions, even if they eventually turn on themselves? You will self destruct out of self hatred, and yet you will never see how or when, or by what mechanisms it comes to you will you?

  19. After listening to you, I realize the only chance there is is for the Americans to wipe themselves, and the rest of the world out by their own self hatred. Hopefully, with no human repression, then, a truly intelligent animal may evolve on this planet and take us where we need to go.

    • Spoken like a true progressive.

      Robert, what you seem to despise in America is the result of people who think along the same lines as you. So, if you get your wish, the result will still be the same…

        • “I am sure, that infinite powers could produce something a lot better than this Augger!”

          What the hell are you blathering about now?

          “I realize the only chance there is is for the Americans to wipe themselves, and the rest of the world out by their own self hatred. “

          Yep, that statement is Spartan alright.

          ” then, a truly intelligent animal may evolve on this planet and take us where we need to go.”

          And this one is Darwinistic as well. However, you have little hope of realizing this until you learn to walk off your knuckles.

          If you are our future, we are all screwed.

  20. Partner, the US is the biggest fascist country in the world, not much different than Hitler or Mussolini. I am sorry to tell you but with all your guns, you are still slaves, and yet you do nothing. Force is not power, power is in ideas. Pooling your energy around assault weapons is doing nothing, you are losing the larger battle, the real, and only meaningful one while you sacrifice 20 cute little kids on your sacrificial alter of futility.

      • Kells,
        The country is full of parasites. No one seems to care what the actual result of their actions are, as long as they can market it to the people. The corporations do this and so do the governments. Everyone seems willing to injure society as long as they can make money at it, and get away with it. When everyone becomes a parasite, then there is no host, and this will collapse.
        Research paper a few years back by 4 researchers, number one cause of death in the US is the US medical system, think about it!

        • Kells,

          This fool is preaching to us about stuff we have already discussed openly on the RNL. In some cases, we have been on this since day one. He is just so convinced we disagree that he won’t even bother to ask, let alone research. he just assumes and plows ahead. then, if he thinks HE has been the victim of an “assumption,” he cries like someone stole his lollipop.

          Frankly, he’s become a bore.

          • Oh, for cryin out loud, B.! I think he’s trying to get to within the within. Does that make sense? I should like to know what his within of the within is. By the comments, I’ve only skimmed the surface. Thankfully, one of us around here is half mermaid and is wiling and able to dive deep. That doesn’t sound right…. :oops:

        • “The country is full of parasites.”

          Well hell. Even a broken clock is right twice per day. This country is in fact full of parasites (though we here call it The Free Sh*t Army).

          And no, the number one cause of death is not the US medical system. I believe however, it does rank third.

          • Check your facts sunshine, and just watch a drug commercial on tv. Are they simply trying to limit their legal liabilities and protect their profits, so they can sell you something that will kill you in a thousand other ways? No laws are broken, so buyer beware! Never assume medical care is for your own good! Don’t be naïve!

            • “Check your facts sunshine, and just watch a drug commercial on tv.”

              Ok “sunshine”, a couple of things: 1 – if you are watching a drug commercial on TV for your facts, you are f’d the h*ll up to begin with, and 2 – I know my “facts”, and we shall share them now.

              Here’s a non-bias perspective for you (one liberal, one not so liberal):

              Suicides Now America’s Leading Cause Of Death By Injury: Study

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/suicide-leading-cause-death-us_n_1909772.html

              Suicide the No. 1 cause of injury-related death in U.S.

              http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/09/26/suicide-no-1-cause-injury-related-death-in-us/#ixzz2FqNDmmMF

              Now, specifically to healthcare …
              Heart disease: 599,413
              Cancer: 567,628
              Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
              Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
              Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
              Alzheimer’s disease: 79,003
              Diabetes: 68,705
              Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
              Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
              Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909

              http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

              Now to the rest of your post, sunshine:

              “Are they simply trying to limit their legal liabilities and protect their profits, so they can sell you something that will kill you in a thousand other ways? No laws are broken, so buyer beware! Never assume medical care is for your own good! Don’t be naïve!”

              I honestly have absolutely no idea what gibberish you are babbling about, but the whole thing wreaks of some whack agenda-filled conspiracy theory.

              Next time, come correct, sunshine.

              • No conspiracy theory here sunshine. Some times people just do crazy things is my explanation. The builders of conspiracy theories are usually crazier than the misfits themselves!

                • Jesus Christ you f*cking dolt. You do not even remember what your assertion was about. Let me refresh you:

                  “Research paper a few years back by 4 researchers, number one cause of death in the US is the US medical system, think about it!”

                  That’s what you wrote peanut. That is your assertion, and I blew it out of the water. Wasn’t hard. It’s not difficult when dealing with an intellectual pauper.

                  Stop hyperventilating over nothing. You are proving yourself a dolt.

                • I only respond to your fallacies, and misrepresentations my friend. Of course my discourse wouldn’t make sense to you. After all, they are only reason and facts.

                  As to your apology about being a dolt …. apology accepted my dear sunshine. I understand you cannot help yourself. It’s all good. :)

    • Robert,

      Obviously, you’re suffering from a severe case of anal-cranial inversion and it’s linked to a direct force-feed mechanism.

      As for the U.S. being a fascist nation: I’ll say this again — READ MY FORMER POSTS (you dunderhead). You might find you are making an ass of yourself in yelling to me about things I’ve said since I started posting here.

  21. Kells,
    I don’t know what you think, but medical treatment is not supposed to enhance your chance of dying(my opinion)? I am not sure around here, suppose I will take even more grief now!

  22. Kells,
    Honestly, it would be real tough. The established ideas are self perpetuating. People with jobs involving some BS, are not going to like it if you lay them off and say they are killing people or something like that. The paradigms are established, and you can beat someone up, that is easy, but to change what is between their ears, that is another story It takes time and the result is not predictable like billiard balls. Ideas are not billiard balls Hun!

      • The US foreign policy is bankrupting the US. I would pull the hell out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and worry about US culture and not tell how other cultures should be like us. Chines pig and rice farmers moving to the cities working in steel plants is more western developed, but the world is not better for it now is it? Nothing wrong with subsistence living?

    • I agree with you on foreign policy. At the same time, we must be wary. I posted two links from here to my son on the FB site. Thie FB site completely baffles me. Do you know this opponent in this Wordplay game got more points off of one of MY words??!! Well, it turns out, that those silly little squares with DL and TL or DW and TW are very crucial to your game as they add more points. I am seven points down, but now I am armed……….with knowledge.

      Do you like to play chess?

  23. I drove truck years ago. Went to El Paso Texas a few times. El Paso is a modern beautiful city, but right across the Rio Grand is Juarez, Mexico. I wouldn’t let my dog live in Juarez. The sky is the same, the climate is the same, the resources and agriculture are the same on both sides of the Rio Grande. So why the difference in lifestyle?
    It is the culture, how people treat each other, value systems, respect for property, law and order, ect…
    If you moved Europeans or Canadians into Juarez it would be prosperous. It is the ideas of the people(culture) that make the difference!
    And so you cannot use guns to change Afghanistan or Iraq, you can not use force to change a culture! Get it?

  24. The professor who wrote the book, Freakonomics. Back in the Clinton days there was an incredible drop in criome rates, new York, los Angeles, and everywhere else. Went completely against all expert predictions.
    He found that the effect was caused 20 years earlier by the law case of rowe vs wade, which opened up the abortion laws.
    Typically, the girls who get abortions, are poor single mothers. And because of being raised in that culture, the boys are criminals and the girls end up being single mothers themselves.
    By legalizing abortion, 20 years later the boys, who would have been criminals were never born, so the crime rates took a huge drop.
    Another example of the culture, and how ideas effect us. Ideas are more power than guns and police, but they are hard to change.

    • Robert,

      I read the book. The problem here is that you drew an incorrect conclusion. Abortion is not an idea, it is an action. What you have done is equivocated murder into an idea — an idea upon which you seem to be placing a positive moral valuation.

      You continue to react as though you know something I do not, but you don’t. You have been “preaching” to me out of your ignorance of my command of these and many other connected issues. Until you stop and take time to catch up to where I am (which — as far as I can see so far — is WAY ahead of you), then you will continue to speak to me out of ignorance, and thus, continue to bore me.

      Now, if you want to speak to me about ideas, then let’s address the idea you seem to be accepting: that the ends justify the means.

  25. Kells,

    On second thought, if we pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan, first I could never do it(they would never let me), and second if I ever managed to do it….I would be assassinated. Too many US business interests and involving the pockets of high rank US officials. They would never leave their investments unprotected. How does it feel to have major national decisions determined by the self interests of a few people, and some corporations. It is not even like they want to pay taxes, but the rest of us pay for their investment security with money and lives.

    • This guys is a one-note samba. Corporations, corporations. Yep, BP and big oil was sooo powerful, they paid Obama’s extortion in huge excess to their actual legal liability. That showed Obama who was boss.

      The big banks told Bush/Obama off as well during the bank bailout. When some of them told Bush/Obama they were fine (because they were), Bush/Obama told them they would take the govt. money and strings or they would not leave the room. That showed Bush/Obama who was boss.

      And the Auto execs refusing to come when they were summoned — oh, wait, they came as commanded, didn’t they?

      I think Robert has been missing a few vital details here. Maybe it’s his “I hate America” blinders getting in his way. But then, so far, everything he has listed that he hates about this nation has been imported — FROM EUROPE! ;-)

      • Joe, It was you who entirely miss the point here. US foreign policy is largely being determined by US corporate interests, and the fact that high US officials have had direct and substantial business interests places like Iraq is the obvious demonstration of this. The truth is revealed, it is not hidden, but it seems mostly inconvenient to people like you so you can only ignore it, or sidestep it! Confounding the truth that high ranking US officials and corps are using the military as if it was a privately owned organization! Isn’t that Fascism?

        • No, Robert,

          YOU are missing the point because you think in only 1 dimension. You seem oblivious to the other forces in play here. Corporations may influence govt. policy, but they have never and will never direct it to the extent you and the rest of the Marxists in this world would have us believe. Obama has been a prime example of this in the way he dictated to BP, and Bush before him in his dealings with the banks and auto industry. Now, if YOU are correct, NONE of that would have or could have happened. yet it did. Therefore, it is obvious that your animosity toward corporations has blinded you to the other parts of the larger equation.

          This much is painfully clear — at least, to those who have eyes. I have tried to help you, but you are so set in your assumption of correctness that you’ve become dogmatic in your belief. This means you’re now beyond anyone’s ability to help you see things more clearly — at least, until you find a way to humble yourself and start looking at what has been presented to you in a different light. I hope you manage to do this someday. But, until that time, you will remain a part of the problem — not part of the solution (as I once was — before I had my eyes opened.).

          Merry Christmas, Robert :-)

          • It is also interesting that,
            1. There were not weapons of mass destruction(contrived assertion?)
            2. The Invasions destabilized the region, Iraq with Hussein stood in opposition to Iran. Now the power vacuum exists if troops pull out. Iran will dominate the region and American investments and influence will be lost.
            3. It would have been better if you stayed home!

            • Better for whom? I think there are 25 million Iraqis and several hundred thousand Afghan schoolgirls and women who might disagree.

              The greatest sin was not the intervention, it was the sapping of the will to do the job right that was prosecuted by the institutional left that was the real war crime.

              • That has always been the assertion made even before the invasion, but the on the ground reality is the Iraqis would prefer their own kind in power, and Hussein, they understood. You cannot be an angel when providing stability from within or to this region because of the culture. The US is finding that out in spades, and have themselves committed many a series of abuses and crimes.
                The bottom line is the US is not in alignment culturally with the Iraqis, and the Shah of Iran imposed by the US is yet another example of how these policies eventually backfire!

                • The Shah? You do understand how/why that fell apart, don;t you? Because a dolt by the name of Carter applied the same thinking you are using and DID NOT SUPPORT HIM!

                  Had we stayed out of the East from day one, then and ONLY THEN would your assertions have any legitimacy. But we didn’t, so they don’t — not now, not anymore.

                  The way to handle it now — the only way to handle it — is to do something Americans such as yourself will never tolerate (I’d find it difficult, myself). But the solution is found in the way we defeated the spirit of Bushido.

                  • And Carter was wise enough not to commit forces to Iran in a long, long term campaign involving tax payer money and lives. He picked his fights more prudently than Bush Jr.
                    It is funny that Jr had clear financial interests himself in corporations given contracts for the so called reconstruction of Iraq. It seems a clear conflict of interest, and he should have abstained ethically from any decision in the invasion? The founding fathers would likely be rolling in their graves?

                    • In theory, do you believe that the position of president, was in the spirit of the constitution, supposed to be a vehicle of making public decisions based upon personal advantages?

                    • And the documented fact is, for the history books, that much of the inner circle and cabinet also had similar biases because of similar investments. Ethically, they all should have resigned?

                    • It is also a breath taking fact that these were the same people to pick the companies responsible for the re-construction, the companies they had an ownership steak in! If that is not flagrant, then I cannot help you!

                    • The US is a corporation. Perhaps they are governed by the same disclosure rules as any other corporation, and a clss action suite might be viable. Clearly Bush and his cohorts had privelidged knowledge and acted upon it in order to beat the market. Hit him where it hurts, the pocket book of these geeks!

                    • The citizens of the US would be able to peruse a civil lawsuit, because citizenship confers the rights of a shareholder and they were injured by actions of the executive.
                      But there is also criminal liability pursuable by the department of justice, for illegal insider trading!

                    • Slavery is already accomplished, and it was fed piece meal, good you swallowed it, one idea at a time….not a shot fired, and not a shot will ever be. Welcome to the paranoia that rules the US. Keep the second amendment so lunatics can murder children in their schools. the real fight has been neglected hasn’t it? Distractions of patriotism, not unlike the distractions of the religiously fanatics, both led to destruction whether they use the bible or the constitution when it suites them? The spirit of the constitution is where the mind should be concentrating, and not on people who supposedly interpret parts of it for their own purposes?

                    • Robert,

                      Once again, you assume facts that are not so and then proceed as if they were true. had you half as much understanding as you seem to believe you have knowledge, then you would know that all Presidents have their financial interests placed in a blind trust upon entering office. Bush W could have no more known what was or wasn’t in his best financial interests than you or I.

                      I’ll say it again: you have become dogmatic in your positions. It is limiting your ability to see the bigger picture here.

            • 1 — we did NOT go to war over WMD. Check the Congressional records, Robert. You’ll see I am correct. Then, STOP WITH THE FALLACIOUS DIVERSION OVER WMD!

              2 — the ‘destabilization’ was already effected before we invaded. Utah is correct: the mistake was made in not supporting the Afghan and Iraqi government after we had evicted Al Qaeda and that Baathist.

              3 — Had we stayed home, we would certainly have invited further attack. Your failure to understand the mentality of our enemies is telling. Had we followed your course of action, they would have seen it as weakness — as they did when Adams tried your approach. It was not until Jefferson that they were taught differently. In this respect, Bush did the right thing.

              Robert,

              I have been there. I have fought these people. I can tell you that you speak from ignorance. You simply do not understand because you are trying to apply Western thinking to the Eastern mind — and post-modernist Western thinking, at that. Thus, you are doomed to failure.

    • FC,

      I can certainly understand that. It has been filled with intentional and — no, with Kells, it is intentional and intentional diversion and subterfuge — ALL to deflect from the issue at hand.

      • I can’t figure out this guy Robert. Is he from (or in) the US? Which side of the issue(s) is he on? He’s swapped sides and political theories at least 3 times and so muddled the discussion I’m not even sure what he has said.

        • FC,

          From his mastery of American English, I’d say he has at least lived in this country for quite a while. As for switching issues: I don’t think he even knows what he thinks/believes — or why. If I didn’t know better (and I may not), I’d say we have another incarnation of Rezzy boy on our hands. All I know is Robert is a bore and I’ve tired of him. He has no desire to do anything but muddy the board and flirt with Kells.

          • WTF??!! You’re really something, you know that? Honest to God, your wife deserves a flippin medal of honour! It just so happens that I wrote on Robert at my own site, which I then put on private as the words were not kind. It is not my nature to be a jerkasaures like you. Will you feel better if I come out of my shell and claw the world as you do?

            I’m going to go listen to the other B., Joseph! You have caused me to lose my temper!

      • I hardly think Kells deflects anybody from the issues when the issues are paramount. Kells is flirtatious and responding in kind is my obligation, and yet it may be fun, it is just a reflex action, she is no serious opponent intellectually!

        • WE have plenty of, as Kells describes herself,” tits and ass” , much closer to home and more convenient. At least I can invite the ones close to home to leave before I have to get up for work? She can have fun in her own geography as far as I am concerned. :) So much for stupid talk and ideas!

          • Robert, I seriously doubt you’d know what to do if a half naked girl sat in your lap and rubbed her tits in your face without an explicit instruction manual with pictures. Just sayin’.

          • Tits and ass, as is Kells main intellectual tool, is not man argument now is it? Its far more basic? If I was a chimp? Then Kells would rule, but I am not and she doesn’t!

    • Now promise that you’ll never complain of me being off on a tangent again! ;) And even if I do, so what? I’ve got tits and ass. Then again, it can’t hurt to scroll down and check out the boys…. (I like pics)
      Crap! I just remembered! I must bring a red wine to this party. I dont drink wine….too girly and fruity. What red wine should I buy? Why the hello doesn’t she like beer??!!

  26. I have been hunting and killing and eating my own food since I was 12. I do not object to firearms as tools for hunters and for farmers, but I do not agree that any idiot should own an assault weapon, or a handgun. Does that make any sense to any of you? And yes, auto complete sometimes enters the wrong word, and I fail to stop it, so much for US English, this is US friggin software isn’t it?

    • What then should happen if an idiot is a farmer or a hunter? I suppose it would be the same outcome if the idiot were a voter. Speaking of idiotic, I do not know what red wine to buy for this party. Unfortunately, my hair looks very 80’s. What the hello am I thinking?

      • The wholesale lethality of the weapon design is the difference. Christ, some on this board have argued that a gun or a knife or a bbq propane bottle is equivalent to an ar 15. I will not go through the demonstration again.

        • “The wholesale lethality of the weapon design is the difference. Christ, some on this board have argued that a gun or a knife or a bbq propane bottle is equivalent to an ar 15. I will not go through the demonstration again.”

          What an utter douche. Are you certain you are not talking about an M-16 dingleberry?

          Learn your flipping weapons before you come here lecturing.

          • I don’t think the weapon was an ar 15 or m16, but it was an assault rifle chambered for the 5.56 mm nato round. And in a battle, under international law the rounds are to be of full metal jacket construction. Unfortunately the ammunition available on the retail is hollow point or pointed soft point, designed to explode upon impact, combined with the extremely high muzzle velocities, to blow up vermin. This is also a very lethal round consequently, especially at close range for a target the size and consistency of a human being! Kiss my ass!

            • Well, we can rule out an AR-15 then. (btw … every one of the literally THOUSANDS of .223 ammunition I have fired for my plethora of AR-15s has been full metal jacketed bullets). Hunting rifles are a different story, yes, but they are semi-automatics, bolt actions, or lever actions. A few are pump action, however, if an AR 15 is used for the purposes of hunting, your magazine can only hold 5 rounds.

              Again, I implore you to learn your topic.

              Additionally, you did not answer my question from last night? Why are you still here stinking up the place?

              “You are a mental defective, cant waste any more energy on you, have a good life! Will finish blocking your drivel shortly! ;) ” <— what happened to this promise?

      • Kells

        Please don’t tell me now that cars kill people too!

        Hun the utility of cars is they are designed for efficient transportation, but people are also killed. They are not by design, for the sole purpose of quick and efficient destruction of human life, are they? The intent, and the energy is very different from an assault rifle or handgun! I don’t understand that you cannot accept this, it is true!

        • I wore black and brought nothing. (I shall have to decide on the perfect wine for this girl as a thank you gift, but I am sorely lacking in that knowledge.) What a fabulous night, though! I love to laugh and got my fill of that. A very silly girl who was my son’s pal in the theatre growing up shall now be A.D.’g a show with Vanessa Redgrave. Ha! She knows the song and dance. ;)

  27. Joe,
    I have stated much very correctly, and have had you respond with silly contradictions, and ingenuously. It seems you are not that different from the perpetrator of the school shooting, in that your sense of reality is at least as much distorted, and your lack of ability to recognise it is making your belief system incompatible with your own physical survival, and that of your neighbours. Have a good life! :)

  28. Holy Mother of God…I can’t believe I read the whole thing. Joe, Augger and Texas, I simply can’t believe y’all kept arguing with this idiotic dolt. Arguing with an idiot like Robert is like beating your head against a brick wall. He still believes what he wants even though he’s dead wrong and you get a sore head.

    If indeed Robert did fight against Lennox, then it’s entirely possible that he suffered more than one too many punches to the head. Augger, as someone in the medical field, can attest to what that does to the human brain…turns it to mush.

    Anyway…very interesting all the same. ;)

    • I am now into 58 minutes of this video. I do not accept, or do I have incite, or do I agree with it all, but it all makes me wonder how much US government is in debt to the US Federal Reserve Bank(simply owning currency notes and debt instruments is a demonstration of creditor control) and it is a private corporation. I wonder at the underlying mechanisms are for how the US Fed Reserve makes a profit, because this reveals its true nature.

      China, as far as I know is the largest owner of Federal US debt in the world, this affords them incredible powers over the US, whether they use it or not. Is the Federal Reserve Bank in even more control of US destiny than even China?

      Remember that you as an American are by birthright in debt to the US Government, and this is how you will live your life forever until you die. It may seem that the control at the top is self evolving in ways unanticipated because of the established system?

    • Kinda unbelievable Obama got the Nobel prize and for what? Being a N***r with a job?

      [WARNING! Robert, I edited that word. You have been given a lot of leeway here, but this is your last warning. There are limits on the RNL and, should I notice you exceeding them again, I will ask Utah to ban you. --Joe]

  29. From first principles, paper money is an agreed upon form of non interrest bearing government debt. The only thing that gives meaning to this and why after all we all use currency paper is that we all pay taxes. Your birthright is to pay tax, and when you are very young your parents pay this debt for you. In the real world of the federal reserve and the IMF, you as a citizen of the us are a collateralized assets who’s simple existence is worthy of credit extensions from the money powers. If and more likely when the us defaults on their debt obligation instruments, the creditors on top will demand tangible assets I exchange for failed paper money debt obligations. And as such, as they have already done in many third world countries, they will demand the ownership of natural resources and infrastructure assets!
    The government uses your existence as collateral to negotiate future debt obligations and guarantee them! When you as a country default, then paper assets will be traded for tangible assets, and the true wealth of a country will be taken away from the people in exchange for paper! The system itself is the biggest ponzi scheme ever imagined! It amount to ideas being exchanged for real wealth, and people being left with nothing but enslavement!
    Follow the money and you will understand who actually runs things. It is not Obama!

    • if you do not understand this Joe, just try feeding yourself or your family with paper. The people on top are much smarter than this! They know true wealth and that is what they are pursuing! Once they do, they will have it all!

      • Robert,

        You are not enlightening anyone on this blog. We already understand everything you think you are teaching us. For the last time, research the history of what has been discussed on this blog. It will help you catch up to the rest of us.

        • Joe,
          thanks for the assurance, it deflates my tension significantly.

          I think it is not so much a conscious conspiracy by those in control as much as an organism at the top pursuing its own self interests when given the opportunity? And this gives me hope because in a democracy we can change the system itself!

          • How can you argue purposeful intent in one post and now argue self-interest alone in another and still hope to be thought to have consistent thinking?

            Robert, I disagree. Sure, many of the lower level players are only looking to”get theirs,” but those at the top know exactly what they are doing. There is a general design to what is happening.

            also, this is not a democracy and, if you want it to be so, I will stand in direct opposition to your efforts. Democracies are evil in their nature and function.

  30. if you yourself were not quoting 250 year old thought, thinking it was entirely original and the very final word on good government, then I might have understood sooner. What is sure is that you come across like a bible thumper, only you are armed with the US constitution as if it was the word of god himself. it is not, and the world has changed since then.
    I will ad that it is the American aggression, from the bottom up, and the top down that will determine its future if it indeed has one.

    • Robert,

      So you do not see value in 250 year old thought? OK, then let me see you fly — since Newton is too old to matter. Let me see you convince us that 2+2=5 (this is as old as time, so surely it doesn’t matter, either).

      You see, it doesn’t matter how old it is, if it is correct, it is correct — period.

      As for the Bible, the entire Western world is built upon Judea/Christian thinking. That includes this nations system of government. What’s more, where those principles and ideals have been abandoned, mankind has slipped back into bondage and serfdom. So, you can attack me for defending these principles all you’d like, but you’ll only serve to shine the spotlight of culpability upon yourself as a member of those about whom I was speaking in my post, The True Divide in America.

      • Joe,
        As far as the fundamental units of matter apply, 2+ 2 does not necessarily equal 4. this is called matrix mathematics, and on a very real fundamental level of reality, the order of the statement creates far different results! So 2 + 2 only equals 4 depending on the order of operations! This is the scientific fact of a matrix universe! ;)

        • Joey,

          The greatest cause of human misfortune and pain is ultimately caused by the attempt of making the temporary permanent! As far as I can tell nothing is permanent. Flow and change is insured! Allign yourself with change and life is not such a pain?

        • Roberto…..2+2 = 4 in Scalar Mathematics irrespective of operation order…….always has….always will.

          In addition,You are forgetting the fundamental th’m of arithmetic …. also if the universe is hyperbolic your quantum matrices may not even follow any order pattern.

          • Don,

            Robert is the perfect example of someone who is trying to apply intellect without wisdom when he only holds a surface understanding of the subjects about which he is attempting to pontificate. ;-)

            • I suppose the implication of matrix mathematics is that you can be on your deathbed and truly regret having beat your dog, your kids, and you wife, but this has a much, much different result than if you had come to that conclusion when you were much younger! Timing does count in a fundamental way that we cannot ever escape from!
              good luck with your timing!

              • Robert,

                That all depends on whether or not you accept the Bible as the Word of God or not. If you don’t, then yes, good luck with your timing. If you do, well, then you can find salvation as you hang on a cross just moments from your death.

                In one of these scenarios we find an infinitely loving God, in the other, we find man’s reasoning. I’ll chose to believe in the former.

                • God is unimaginable by human standards. He is not an anthropometric creation.
                  Perhaps a species of intelligent mice on another planet would naturally conceive that god had big ears and a love of cheese, but they would be wrong!
                  God is the cause of and the condition of everything, you, me, Bells, Augger. Too fantastic to ever be understood. God has left us clues though, and he gave us minds, like his, to work them out. We are most fortunate.

                    • Joe,
                      Ignore what I say about heart diseas, the number one killer officially in the United States. I am right, and all the millions of dollars spent on research and experts is wrong! Am I preach?
                      Look into the info behind what I say about heart disease and its fundamental cause. I know the answer, and yet I figured it out on my own without millions upon millions in research grants!
                      Is the American medical system working out of human interrest, or something else?
                      You cure cancer then, I already have a pretty good idea!
                      The problem is chimps don’t understand medicine, and most people are chimps!
                      That’s not preachy, it’s a fact!

  31. Joe,
    Democracy is also caple of self -enslavement, and all through democratic processes! What we are doing is just that, and it is not intentional on certain levels. But you are not a stupid man, you understand what the lack of understanding is accomplishing! Good luck Joe, I think you are a friend! :)

      • Hah Kells Baby Doll,

        Have you ever looked at the books of major charities, as much as 98% of your monies goes to administration costs! Sounds too much like a cheap rip off to me! t seems that parasites are the American way? One cannot even feel good about contributing to charity, because someone is sucking the very life right out of it! Love your boobs! Smooch! ;)

        • Don,

          If she’s playing those games with the likes of Robert, that’s a party you don’t want to be invited to. It means Kells is very likely to have been permanently infected with something industrial cleanser can’t scrub off.

            • The underlying truth is that the opposition to life is ourselves. The world bank, the US Federal reserve, the American Government do not enslave us unless we let it happen. When you accept the abuse, you allow the new standard for abuse, and it is much harder to fight at that point, you have already agreed to it. The spiral continues?

              • Vitamin D is formed in the skin when UVB radiation from the sun reacts with cholesterol within the skins capillary bed. This conversion takes place and reduces the cholesterol level of the body. In the absence of this exposure cholesterol builds up in the body and causes coronary heart disease instead of creating the disease preventative hormone vitamin D. Taking vitamin D orally will not provide this benefit.

                It is Interresting that vitamin D enhances calcium and magnesium adsorption. This should improve not only the strength and quality of skeletal muscle function, but of cardiac muscle as well. This should increase the force of contractions and increase the relaxation of muscle in between contractions. This should improve cardiac function and health and may be yet another mechanism in which vitamin D functions to promote heart health?

                In case you are unaware, muscle contractions are triggered by the flood of calcium ions into the muscle cells, and muscle relaxation is triggered by the flood of magnesium ions into the muscle cells. Calcium adsorption into the body is not at all efficient without vitamin D, and magnesium deficiency more common than not.

                http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/89/8/579.full.pdf

                I have solved the problem of heart disease, the supposed number one killer in America. Figure it out for yourself now at this point!

                • Robert’s comments were redacted for violation of the posted RNL commentary policy.

                  Robert,

                  You are welcome to post and free to disagree, but now that I am the chief administrator of the blog, the comment policies will be enforced. Please refrain from direct personal insults. Too many more comments like the one I deleted will force me to figure out how to block you from this blog.

                  Now, please, disagree all you want, but be civil about it.

                  Joe

  32. I didn’t say scaler, I said matrix mathematics, and this applies to all quantum units of matter, and so, since we are constructs of more fundamental components are we! The subjective is far more important than you think, it is built into truth! In matrix math, 2 x3 is dependant upon the order and the two orders are not the same result! And so, the philosophic implication is that what you decide is as important as when you decide it?

    • You clearly don’t understand Quantum Electro Dynamics as it relates to Quantum Gravity…..

      Nor for that matter Newtonian kinematics…..where Scaler geodesics STILL matter. Gaussian and Galois Groups are quite predictive in High energy single event scenarios…..but the Higgs event mostly evidences a “field”…in spite of the popular press take on it.

      But really these are Human constructs…..and thus I tried to direct U outward towards a Comologic perspective…..since it seems U want to make a comment that encompasses everything……there are more everythings in the Universe at large than there are in the miro-cosmos of Quantum Matrix interactions…….and lest we forget…….we ain’t figured that one out yet. Study the permutations of 4 Dimensional Matrices on a Hyperbolic Universe if U want a humbling experience…….outside of yourself that is.

      Best of all please remember that the mind of man is NOT the mind of God.

  33. Joe,
    Kells is the product of incredible cuteness to a grown up man. I am not saying I agree with her, but who the hell cares? I am a slob like this.

    Joe,
    I have no wisdom to pontificate, but I have opinion. You have opinion! The only thing I do know for sure is that life will make fools out of us both! The truth for us is in the struggle, and that is what life is about…struggling against the opposition?

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