Rubio Sells the Lie and Limbaugh Cheers Him On

I have to kill you to save you.

Did you hear Limbaugh’s interview with Rubio today?  Well, if you did, let me explain to you what you should have heard.  Let’s start with that statement, “I have to kill you to save you.”

Do you remember when Bush said we had to abandon the free market to save it?  Did we save it?  Did we get it back?  The answer is no and no.  In fact, most everything free market supporters said would happen because of what Bush did has been proven correct.  Now, Rubio actually told you that we have to abandon the rule of law to save the rule of law.

Yes, this is exactly what Rubio said when he told us that he knows many of us will be upset by the fact that people who broke our laws are going to get rewarded, but that we have to accept this in order to fix things – so we can save America.  All I have to say to Senator Rubio is: BS!

America is two things: the free market protected by the rule of law.  In essence, that is what individual rights and liberty and natural law are all about: preserving our ability to participate in the free market through the rule of law.  They are the spirit of America.  So, when Rubio rightly pointed out that America is the last best hope for man. He was saying we have to save the rule of law.  But then he said we have to abandon the rule of law to save the rule of law.  So, Rubio wants to kill you to save you.

And then there is Limbaugh.  He confirmed my suspicion of him today.  When you listen to this man, you are listening to theater.  Yes, he will impart a great deal of information, but look at what he always does.  Every time the Republicans run Left and advance Leftist ideas, Limbaugh does his best to convince you that conservatives have to support the move.  I don’t care how he spins the particulars, this is what he does: he keeps conservatives on the Republican reservation – just like his seasoned citizen called accused him of doing back in the fall of ’94.

Now, I know many RNL readers will be…shall we say, less than happy with me and this post.  But that’s too bad: it’s the truth.  If you abandon the free market to save it and the rule of law to save it, you have abandoned America to save it.  How much more Progressive (Orwellian) can you possibly get?  I have a better idea.  Let’s start patrolling the border rather than our cities; jailing the entire administration/ownership of any business that hires an illegal alien, and start prosecuting government officials for their part in what amounts to subversion: the undermining of our law.  Anything else just serves the collective, which just throws more dirt on America’s grave.

[Note: to those of you who have resisted my attacks on "conservatism," I point out that Limbaugh defended Rubio as a "strong conservative" today. Limbaugh is holding Rubio up as an example of what conservatives should be. If that is who you guys are, then you are not who you say and think you are because Rubio just put the Democrat Party's agenda in terms the Republican leadership thinks is 'palatable' to the Right. In other words, Rubio is playing you for a fool. Now, whether he is an equal fool in this I don't know, but I know this: if Rubio represents conservatism, then conservatism represents as much a cancer on our Republic as Progressivism.]

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87 thoughts on “Rubio Sells the Lie and Limbaugh Cheers Him On

  1. Yes, I just listened and when I heard Rush cheer I had a ‘set back’ reaction cause what I heard Rubio say was a bit disturbing.

    Or… another angle is, could it be that he is disarming Obama and the Left by giving an ‘end-run’ approach as Gingrich did with the Contract for America and making Congressional elections national?

    What I mean is, we are NOT going to do a “roundup”. NO ONE has the balls to do that BUT Romney as he said in debate #2 – most Conservative I ever heard Romney speak – but its just not going to happen. I think Rubio’s goal is the secure the border so tie that to what the left wants and defuse them.

    I also understand your Bush analogy but I am not sure a connection can be made solely because that was a ‘man made panic creation’ and this has no urgency at all.

    I only hedge in Rubio’s direction because we need to take back the narrative first then control it and we cannot do that as long as we are dealing with complete liars (the left). I just don’t think this issue reaches the level of “crisis” as your example nor do the sheeple mark this high on their priority list… UNFORTUNATELY for us that are tied to “borders, language and culture”.

    • Poli,

      This issue was “settled” by “compromise” several times already — and EVERY TIME, we moved in the direction of the Left for a promise of securing the borders. Are the borders secure yet? So why would you listen to the next pied-piper? Because he is a good looking Latino who sounds “conservative?” Ha! See, the theater caught you ;-)

      • I understand that to but those were temporary including the unconstitutional exec order.

        This takes it completely off the table AND gives us the issue of border security cause you and I know the left will NEVER secure it. So now we have an issue in our court for 2014.

        • I think there is some merit to this…….We HAVE to be thinking about 2014….it is CRUCIAL.

          That includes working NOW on Conservative / Libertarian / TP candidates LOCALLY to run and increase in the HOUSE and even Senate…..the Left is planning and hoping to GUT the house in 2014 leading up to complete total control by Democrat Union Communists.

          BUT …. in this sense the Conservatives we do have….. HAVE to Stop this new voting Block from being legitimized, they have to separate the Border issue from “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” bulls–t…..the border should NOT be a hostage to Illegal Immigration issues.

    • O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity

      They are moving away from the “educated on the Constitution” electorate.

      I just don’t understand what is happening to them. They educate everyone on the realities of lieing politics, and now they are joining the liars.

      ?were they always lieing?

    • I agree with some of what Poli is saying. I think Rush is Desparately looking for some kind of Leadership…..and esp. Leadership that will be Vocal……..Rush HAS been complaing about the lack of Conservatives who are visible…..he ALSO during that whole presentation…before and after High-lighted the Sham that Compromise represents……. Securing the Border is what Rush was focusing on Today.

      But I also agree with Joe that “COMPROMISE” is NOT what we need …. Esp. since it will only give the Democrats and Progressive GOP-RINOs exactly what they want…… Which is accepting the Lie that 11 million are here…it is more like 20 million, thus giving 20 Million new Free-loading ( as in Entitlements) Progressive voters to the rolls…..The Gov’t Thumbing their nose at the Law and Rewarding yet MORE illegal action…… making Legal immigration a Sad Joke….institutionalize Racism once again ( as with Affirmative Action )….by somehow legislating that “immigration” basically means Hispanic…..etc.

      Also Rush as been VERY vocal that a Romney loss would mean the death of the GOP…..both before and after the election….M Levin has been saying similar things WRT the Purging of Conservatives by the RINO Leadership and has said directly that our Answer DOES NOT LIE in wash DC.

      • Don,

        It isn’t what he says. What Limbaugh says is his product: that’s what he sells. But it’s what he does that matters, and what he does is work like the devil to keep those who would otherwise follow the likes of Paul in the Republican Party instead.

        Look at it this way. Limbaugh tells his audience to follow their passion and never let anyone tell them they can’t do something — unless that passion is freedom and that thing is start a new Party. When that comes up, Limbaugh sounds just like one fo the nay-sayers he usually attacks. So that is what he does — no matter what he says.

    • Hannity was Down for Romney LOOONG before the Primaries were over…..he gave lip service to the others but it was CLEAR Hannity was for the RINO, not the least of which was his CONSTANT sycophantic thrusting of Karl Rove on us for the last 18 Months leading up to the Election……He has been Seriously discredited IMHO.

      • Don,

        He is selling conservatism, just like the Left sells communism. They are all hawkers, their ideology is just what they hawk. There is little real conviction in any of them — not anymore. :-(

        • Nope …. Hannity is selling the Republican Mainstream…with a HOPE that conservative values will Bubble-up with-in it.

          Beck, Levin, to a certain extent Paul…even A Jones are talking about Conservatism.

          • Don,

            I’m not sure I can agree with that. First, Beck has been saying he is selling Libertarianism (though he really means Classic Liberalism). Paul is pretty much in the same boat.

            As for the rest, they are selling conservatism and that’s the problem. What it is and what people think it is are two different things. Just as there are Democrats who firmly believe their Party is NOT Socialist/Communist when it is, there are Republicans who do not realize that what they call conservatism is NOT the same thing as what our founders believed. You are dealing with a much more sophisticated sale is on the Right because they have to sell it that way — the right is smarter than the Left (rank-and-file, not leader).

            • I don’t lump them all as…”the Rest”.

              There are significant differences between them………..A significant similarity between those I consider Conservative would be the insistance that Smaller Government is Best …. and that,…That Government should be Entirely defined by the Constitution as Originally written.

      • I’m kind of in the same boat of thought as you are Don. And I will add to our dismay, Hannity’s totally broken repetitive record syndrome.

        He just babbles the same old shit over, and over again.

    • U change Ur hair faster than a teenage girl changes outfits a a “Forever 21 Store”…..

      Not that there’s anything wrong with that …. it’s good you ditched the chest hair though, jus’Sayin… ;- )) .

  2. As long as Obama is President the borders will never be secured regardless of how they spin it. Remember you are dealing with a pathological liar and his cadre’s of supporters that will uphold every spoken or written lie. The tipping point is upon us and once these 10 to 15 million illegal aliens are rushed through the system to gain US Citizenship its over. They already control all of the major cities (see the pockets of blue amongst the red). The progressives out think and maneuver the Republicans at every turn. The Republicans just fail to accept the fact that Obama and his sycophants are not Americans any longer. They want one thing – total control. Time for negotiating is over. No more compromises.

    • Chhelo,

      You are, of course, assuming the Republicans actually want to stop Obama’s agenda. I no longer believe that. But, if they do, then none of the Republicans are worth voting for because — by their own actions — they have proven they are so gullible and incompetent they will fall for the same old lies every time those lies are offered.

      Either way, it is a bad scene.

      • Same for me… and I just re-played Rush. The part that just REALLY rubs me wrong is the cheering at the end and how great Rubio is. I don’t know Rubio. What’s his record? He’s gained our confidence from what actions? Its like he’s a new player on the field and running block, the commentators are talking him up but its his FIRST PLAY! So the GOP looks good via Rubio, Christie, etc. while it continues the ONE PARTY SYSTEM.

        I am now thinking that what Bill Whittle touched on, I have been saying and thinking more, you and many others like Beck have been saying is reality and we need to MOVE NOW – CREATE A NEW PARTY! The GOP is dead…

        • The trick shall be in the funding, don’t you think? If we are honest, politics basically boils down to bills.(Not the ones that quack….then again, there was Clinton.) He doesn’t have any funny money with his picture on it though, does he?

            • Bingo Joe, you got it !!!…..EVERY Conservative and Libertarian should be shouting this fact “from the Mountain tops”…to paraphrase MLK !!!!

        • Poli,

          What they are doing is trying their tried-and-true tactics of high school cliquishness. Rubio hasn’t done anything, but they trained us all to glam on to the hero de jure, then conditioned us to let our talking heads tell us who that is. What you saw Rush do today is play the 180 degree rule — conservative style. For the past few weeks, he has been mouthing the talk about the R’s not standing for anything, then, when Rubio says we stand for the same thing the D’s do, Rush tells us how great Rubio is and how brilliant his interview was and the Pavlovian dogs run off to slobber after the latest RINO.

          Now consider this. How do the R’s and their talking heads react to people who really are preaching liberty, such as Paul and Beck? They treat them like Voldermort )those who shall not be named). THAT is how you know where the truth lies: when both Parties attack or ignore it, that is the path we should travel. ;-)

            • Now THAT I disagree with!

              This is NOT what “most” religions do… some, yes and cults yes but not most religions. This is an old early 19th century Progressive propaganda statement and just like Rush and Rubio is pulling the wool over our eyes (I am starting to believe), so did the anti-religion Left with that comment and hey… YOU HAVE BEEN INFECTED.

              First, I think religion to any common sense thinking person like me is evil on the same ground as government. But it is also needed evil just like government. Some people need it. It does FAR BETTER at community than ANY government. Its far more effective at donation distribution including its ratios.

              As a person in and out of many religions both psychically and educationally, their main goal is no different than government – to establish a foundation and that takes followers. The difference is, they are ALL VOLUNTEER. NO ONE is forcing ANYONE into a religion. But I am forced into a government and all its power over me. So if you buy into a belief out of fear…THAT IS YOUR OWN FAULT, not the religion. Second, religion is people and people are screwed up!

              I bet if someone did a study on how many people have been helped by religion vs government; the religion bar would be VERTICAL (a positive direction) while the government bar would be vertical DOWN – in the red and a matter of fact it would have a number somewhere around $16 TRILLION in the red!

              • Poli,

                I could be wrong, but I think Texas was alluding to the difference between faith and religion. It must be remembered that Christ objected to religion. Religion is a man-made thing: a set of rules that has nothing to do with God. If I am correct and this is the sense Texas is using the term, then he is correct: it is but another method of controlling the masses.

                • OK, thanks for that. I misread it :-)

                  Yes, Jesus in fact, if you read his words WARNED against religion but did not elude to never having religion. I think what was meant was to be vigilant towards your religion as much as government.

                  • Poli,

                    He told us to not focus so much on the rules that we lose track of the intent (spirit). This applies to government as much as to faith/religion. remember, for the Jews, the Law was the government ;-)

                • “Some” have argued, the Jews forgot/lost their faith, and were therefore punished by “losing” the “holy land”.

          • Well… You know how I feel on this topic. Like I told you before, unless some big money steps up and starts GOP v2.0 we mist take this GOP BACK! We had a chance but put Bonner back in as speaker. We had a chance with John Treasonous Kerry but rolled over and we had a chance with Rubio but that seems lost too. Like Bill Whittle said… I am not giving up and going out in a blaze of fire!

        • It’s True what you say about Rubio being the New Player ,,,, The GOP and Conservatives ( NO they are not the same Joe ) are trying to “Brand” differently….with New Faces….which the Conservatives want/Hope will articulate Constitutional Values and a True conservative message…….

          So Rush and others are hoping they can mold Rubio……and hoping He and others Like Cruz, Rand Paul, Kelly Ayotte etc will speak to Contitutional Conservatism publically once the spot-light from the Press gets turned on them like Rubio.

          Unfortunately the Talk is still Left-Controlled with Rubio saying for instance “we need to deal with the legality issue of the 11 million “undocumented” aliens “……….A true Conservative message would be ..*.We need to address this issue, but Border security should NOT be held hostage to an immigration policy discussion…….Border Security is its own issue and Immigtation is its own issue and BOTH are the responsibility of the Gov’t to enforce….and BTW we already HAVE a Legal Immigration policy which defines these people as Illegally entering the Country*

          Please feel free to Forward my suggested Conservative comments to Rubio.

    • That was a Pretty amazing Speech by Whittle …. Do you know the Date it was given ??

      ….Remember ……….. ” For the Duration !! “……….

  3. Don,
    Thomas Jefferson penned over 19,000 letters, over 30,000 pages before he died, on July 4, 1826, 50 years to the day after the Declaration of Independence was signed.
    George Washington wrote voluminously as did all our founders.
    Most “moderns” purposely do not know or study them. Their words DESTROY the “modern” narrative that is based upon lies.

  4. OK – so the issue is back up on Rush again! I think Joe got a bit trigger happy which is why I stayed cautiously alarmed.

    Now, Rubio did state; “no deal WITHOUT border security”. He is adamant on the security being tied to ANY deal. Now Joe, you know our main Conservative (Reagan) failed here so before you go nuts, just remember the guy that is held up as a Conservative King failed this issue BIG TIME by selling out to the left and “sold out” like you are saying Rubio will do.

    FACT! “Rubio hasn’t done ANYTHING yet.”

    So who are we going to believe? Again, we have two parties LIKE IT OR NOT. We don’t like it but we have to work with who we voted for. I have to default back to “stay calm till all the data is in”. We must stop abandoning the Conservatives (or those that claim to be) till they prove us wrong then drop their A$$E$ like a bad habit next election.

    Once we establish a standard that; you go against OUR values we WILL FIRE YOU! And they understand this we start making headway and I think we will seed this in 2014.

    Would I like a 3rd party as Beck said today because the GOP is dead. YES!
    But lets not kill the Conservatives still in the party while that happens and save them when they move to our new 3rd party “if that happens”.

    Otherwise, this trigger happy reactionary approach is self defeating and doesn’t get us anywhere!

    PS
    Don’t read into my words here either!
    Re-read what I stated yesterday and know that I was disturbed by Rush’s reaction to what “SOUNDED” like a sellout.
    I also stated I thought Rubio was doing an end-run, a rope-a-dope and it looks like he’s on track for that approach.

    So lets do what we are ALL going to have to do.. wait and see THEN react. That is how our system works!

    • Poli,

      NOPE! I didn’t jump the gun. In fact, I expected something like this and it actually confirms my take on this issue. :-)

      Now let me explain why:

      1) Yes, Reagan got burned, which is why we shouldn’t have tried it again — when they wrote the wall “shall” be built into the last deal. That is law: they MUST build the wall — but they haven’t. Burned AGAIN! SO, here’s Rubio telling us to trust the D’s A THIRD TIME?!? OK, Charlie Brown, kick my football ;-)

      2) FACT! Rubio HAS done something: he went on Rush’s show, told “conservatives” we have to grant amnesty (he used more acceptable language, but this is what he said) and then got Limbaugh to cheer him as “mature” about the issue. That is undermining conservative values/principles (assuming there actually are any other than “get our guy elected”).

      3) Rush DID sell out — but now he is telling you he didn’t because he has to keep his audience so he will be in position for the next sell out. That is what happened here: a much more sophisticated but still Progressive shell game. Rush was against amnesty, Rubio said we have to grant it, but border security first, Rush cheers it, then today, everyone is telling you that is NOT what you hear and that Rubio is still correct — even though that is exactly what Rubio said.

      Honestly, Senator Nelson had the best take on this: Rubio just said what he had to to get the conservatives on board. Judging by your questioning of what you, yourself, heard yesterday, Nelson is right and Rubio succeeded.

      Now, I will not “sell out” the conservatives, but neither will I give them a pass. They are the flip side of the liberal/progressive coin and I will treat them as such. In the mean time, not another dime nor vote of mine will go to the Republican Party or anyone fool enough to run for office under their banner. If you count me traitor for this, then you just did to me exactly what you have attacked the Left for doing to anyone that disagrees with them. ;-)

      • You say it confirms but did you listen to Rush today? Confirms what? Based on your answer I suspect it doesn’t so I will itemize my reply to you.

        #1 A) We do NOT know what Rubio’s plan is yes so you’re make a HUGE assumption. And what is your plan, just keep getting our asses kicked on issues we are obviously losing on (based on the election results)?

        Please tell me where Rubio says; “trust the D’s”. Answer again… he doesn’t!

        #2 A) A am talking about actual congressional action.. stop playing word games.

        #3 A) Rush is NOT deceptive… first off I have listened to him since he was in Sacramento. It is what Rush does NOT talk about that you have to be leery of him. This is know from experience!

        Now I am not trying to argue for the sake of it… I don’t waste my time with that. What I am worried about is the self defeating approach to everything political just because we have two parties or just because someone doesn’t fit the Conservative model 100%. That is destructive and regressive and IT IS what has created the modern GOP establishment So we created what we complain about! This is insanity.

        What pisses me off most though is that from this shoot all first ask questions later approach – what’s the alternative? NO ONE offers one up BUT for us to add another wrench in the system – a 3rd party. Then what!? There is good AND bad in everything and if we had a 3rd party my guess is you and many like minded would blast them to. So all we would have is THREE parties to shot at like fish in a barrel

        Ever heard of “roll with the punches”? That’s POLITICS. That is, what I think, Rubio is trying to do. We do NOT have a choice do we but give him a chance and if he goes clear off the res – then shoot (figuratively saying)! ;-)

        • Poli,

          Yes, I heard Rush today. He tried to tell me he did not agree with and praise Rubio yesterday. Trouble is, I heard him do that yesterday.

          As for Rubio, YES WE DO KNOW WHAT HIS PLAN IS! He said we have to face the fact that some people will be rewarded for breaking the law. That means he agrees with amnesty. I stopped right there. the rest is just sugar on the medicine, but the medicine is poison.

          I have listened to Rush since 1993. He is a master at using fallacious argument. Even what he says must be paid close and careful attention because he does deceive — openly. I’ve caught him doing it quite often, mostly when he gets caught by someone who knows how to spot his tactics and is prepared to make a spirited defense of their own positions.

          But it’s OK. You are free to chase the conservative narrative. I’m not going to stop you, I’m just not going to join you nor try to help you — not since I woke to what it REALLY means.

  5. I heard him too and I reacted a similar way… not denying that. But what I heard today and re-listened to Rubio from yesterday, I think the context was lost and the knees started jerking. I still stand by my last post – nothing is in writing yet and this is ALL conjecture at this point.

    • Poli,

      I hear you. I understand you are willing to give “your guys” a third swing at this. But I also understand that, had the R’s wanted to do something about it, they would have — under Bush Jr! I also understand they are talking about “trusting” the D’s — AGAIN!

      Do you know what Einstein said about doing the same old thing and expecting a different result?
      :-)

      • And all of that I don’t totally disagree with but I insist…

        what the alternative?
        who is?
        where is?

        that’s what I thought. We need to stay in touch with reality and reality is we have to work with what we got.

        • Poli,

          Which is exactly what Rush said to Rubio yesterday: that Rubio was dealing with “reality.”

          You know what? Our insistence that doing the same-old, same-old is “reality” is nothing more than covering your eyes as they drive you over the edge of the cliff. It might make you feel better, but it doesn’t achieve the goal you profess to want. :-(

          • Well first off, if we do NOT get off this “everything revolves around DC” mental state we will NEVER solve the issues we have. I do NOT think from DC – I think from my local city via the Tea Party and whats going on locally. Once we change our communities, DC will just keep you spinning your wheels!

            I am not expecting Rubio to do the same old thing UNTIL he comes out with data otherwise. And if and when that happens he WILL HEAR FORM ME and millions others and I can guarantee you he will hear us. Rubio doesn’t come off as the type to ignore us – not like Obama and the Dems.

            Goal? Now your going to tell me about goals… I will ask for the 3rd time – what is the goal? I read all this clap trap online and NO ONE offering solutions. Beck; “GOP is dead”. OK! Rush; “save the GOP” OK, how!?

            No one has a plan and it will be THIS fact that destroys us. I have written what to do but we need time from the grass roots level and money to change the demographics back to Conservative thoughts – bottom up. That takes time if we can do it at all. It took the left 100 years to get us here but I think with their fiscal policies we could take advantage to recapture whats lost in just a few short years but all I hear is COMPLAINERS not visions. I want to see plans. As far as I know Levin is the only one creating a plan unrelieved yet but he’s doing something.

            Bottom line is.. we can point out the issues all day long… action is needed.

            • Poli,

              Complainers? So you want to make an opponent out of me, do you? Because, if that’s your goal, you’re doing a pretty good job so far.

              I tell you what: you want ideas about how to fix this? Start here: tell me what you actually believe in and go from there. I bet, if I got you right down to it, you are not as close to the founders as you believe. And THAT is where I sense we are growing apart.

              However, that said, I agree with you on the point of taking politics back to the local level. If we have room for common ground, i think it starts with that point.

              • What I believe in!? Nice try to change the subject. And I guess you are the arbiter for such standard? Then why are you on here and not changing the GOP? How about we just keep it all simple and start with the continued effort to elect Constitutional fidelity candidate’s like Rubio via the Tea Party. See I am involved in two Tea Party groups and I come on sites like this to try to make sense of things like “their all screwed up” bs and no offerings of solutions. Libertarians I am convinced are just as bad as the radical left… They talk total negativity about both sides, do NOTHING to try and fix it and its all or nothing. Sounds like a radical to me! No where NEAR our founders approach yet its co-opted to establish some kind of creds. Again… What is common ground… Don’t mean to be angry but come on, more talk. Complete crap!

                  • Now for my last words and I will stop wasting my time… I will try to educate you (which I am SURE will tee you off cause you are a know it all) on what YOU THINK is our founders intent. Their intent was all about compromise. Read the early versions of the Constitution.. the one we have now is a result of COMPROMISE. Not as we see it today, they all agreed on fundamental basics unlike today. Today we have all extremists – from Libertarians to Progressives.

                    Conservatives are the ONLY political group with a founders philosophy.

                    Then we have a handful of people like Rubio, etc. that are trying to shift things back with actual negotiations NOT “all or nothing” rhetoric talkers and Bloggers that do nothing outside of their computer screen.

                    You have YET to offer ANY solution.

                    Do yourself a favor – join a local Conservative groups or Tea Party and apply real actions behind your posts. Now, have a good night and thanks for getting my dander up! :-)

                    • Conservatives are the ONLY political group with a founders philosophy.

                      Sorry, poli, but that’s just not true. Conservatism is NOT the founder’s philosophy. The founders were against corporations, and the form of economics conservatives of today call “capitalism.” Read their words. The founders were more aligned with Ron Paul where the military is concerned. They would have opposed the conservatives support of things like DUI check-points. And the “conservatives” Patriot Act would likely have set the founders to shooting — again.

                      But then, you don’t care about these things. You are so convinced I am part of the problem, you never shut your pie hole long enough to listen to me. So, you’re right, you are wasting your time with me — but it’s because you are as locked in your thought process as the Left is in theirs..

                      Oh, BTW: I have given you the answer, you just didn’t like it.

                    • And here in-lies the problem… “interpretations”. I have read their pages… in your own statement you are wrong!

                      “The founders were against corporations, and the form of economics conservatives of today call “capitalism.”

                      The first part is GENERALIZATION and just flat out FALSE. Which Conservatives are you talking about? None that I know. Not Levin. Who? Today’s capitalism is a result of the people – giving politicians power to manipulate it. To abuse regulatory actions. The founders and Conservative originalists like Locke and Montesquieu ALL believe in a federal government “with limited power” to regulate for the purposes to protect those of use without power and abilities to abuse others.

                      That wasn’t an answer…
                      I want to see documents like I have written. And keep in touch cause I am nearly done with my next big article “with a plan” and it identifies our problem first – titled: The Two Extremes; Progressives & Libertarians

                    • LOL, dude, YOU are the one behaving like a Progressive. But then, you’re a “conservative.” They are actually related ideologies, so no surprise :-)

                    • Hahaha… And now, you have stooped to childish comments. But I’M the progressive. Wow, you may want to take the night off and regroup. You are beginning to sound unhinged. You know… Like a LIBRALterian? Hahaha…

                      You’re losing the conversation and THIS TIME I am stopping cause you are not my enemy, I am not yours but rather we have about 77% of the voting population that know nothing which we speak and we’re defeating our purpose. Hell.. 77% can’t even answer the question of how many branches of government!

                      I can see common ground for both our view’s but it takes and will take a convention. Several! When that time comes I look forward to the debate. Meanwhile I have to get back to work with real change, my Tea Party agenda items before Sunday night board meetings.

                      Take care my fellow patriot! Go relax.

                • PoliTecs…..You are a Smart Guy/Gal….You know we’ve agreed on some issues well.

                  Understand…I think you do at Heart….But understand that Folks like you and Folks like Me and Folks like Joe will have to come together ( in more than the Beattles song).

                  WE UNITED , will conquer this insanity…divided the Progressives win.

                  And that means there are a small set of Agreed upon goals that we will agree to fight for….and leave some of our other issues out of the “TenT’ for latter……….Un-compromising insistance on return to the Constitution and Bill of Rights……Rule of Constitutional Law ( such as a Budget…the Congress is lawless and thus illegitimate at this point), Spending Cuts and Reduction of Gov’t Agency Depts…….this could be a limited and successful rallying platform for “Conservatives”, “Libertarians” and “Classical Liberals” !!

                  • And for that very reason I tried hard to back off as much as I could but I will not (I know you understand) back off completely. I work from principal in my ideology.

                    The issues thing I also agree on but this I think is far more than just an “issue”. This is becoming systemic. There are Progressives moving into the Libertarian camp because their own political group(s) are not completing their own goals. Basically co-opting. And the Libertarians are borderline Anarchists if not full blown. What I see is two extremes setting a new narrative while Conservatism IS the TRUE Constitutional alignment. I wont say political group because if you understand it like I do – its a way of life including government and society.

                    The two extremes (Libertarian and Progressives) only divide.

                    I also know that all the “compromise” in our politics, the topics you list and in our history derived from the Conservative philosophy. We all agree on basics, limited govmnt. but we don’t agree how to get their. We all agree national defence but we don’t agree at which level… the list goes on.

                • @ PoliTecs…Yes but Joe is NOT a Libertarian….from his reasons, pretty much for the same as you.

                  Compromise with Allies … is really the ONLY compromise that works … but what I am saying not even a Compromise … but a Narrowing of the Goal Set….Goals which already exist within various Camps of “Conservatives”….so that we can save the Country.

                  The Left doesn’t let itself be divided and it is winning …. we have to do the same …. otherwise we will be like Islands that will be squashed .

                  • I hear ya… Though I am not so sure about the united part. I don’t think I want the right united. I think the “establishment” is a result of such efforts. Its far more healthy to have disagreement but I do understand what you mean – the fundamentals but test this what divides us. We cannot agree on basics with the GOP right now so divided we will be until we return to Conservative vs Progressive. Moderates and extremes mist be eliminated. That is occurring at the grass roots now via the Tea Party and it is trickling up… We have Cruz, Rubio, DeMint, Walker… We have a list and its growing.

                • NO…..We DO have to be united NOW….under the Basic set of mutually agreed goals. With the understanding that we are Separate….like the States were under the Federation and under the Constitution in the Early years of the Republic. The 36% that FOUGHT the Revolution WERE Untied around a very Slim set of Goals.

                  I’m talking about a similar thing …. with Mutual respect and understanding that other issues can and will be addressed when the Country is at a place where we are not at risk of Losing it all…..which is where we are at this point !

                  • OK Don, I’ll take the bait.

                    How do you unite with extremists? They are extreme BECAUSE they do NOT compromise. I hate the word compromise because of the the parties have done to the term. So lets talk about the term from the founding perspective. Now, I ask again, how do you unite with extreme?

                    1) Libertarians from what I have seen, experienced and studied are just as head strong about their view and understanding of our founding as the Progressives are to destroy it. In the end, both accomplish the same. Libertarians create Anarchy. The Progressives create totalitarianism.

                    2) Conservatism is NOT a party. Its a philosophy. IN modern America we have created a party label called Conservative but I beg you to define it on the line of politics. Are we Anarchists? No. Are we Progressives? No. Are we close to Anarchy – yes, just as the founders wanted; “as close to anarchy without becoming Anarchists. We are not “center” or whishy washy Moderates because we have founding principals and understand our history.

                    So we are somewhere between Anarchy and the middle. And we move because sometimes business needs to be regulated. Other times government must be scaled back from their regulations. We move a little in that line of politics.

                    Problem we have now is like a drunk that gets their 3rd DUI. All of a sudden he’s in church that weekend and becomes “saved”. Is he? I would say not. Its a step but its EXTREME and he’s just looking for temporary relief not actually believe in God or Jesus. Their called converts and their time in church or ‘belief’ is short. I have done that too! So I speak from experience. Nearly ALL I speak comes from experience – just as our founders did.

                    I hear LIBERALtarians (cause that’s what they are) Liberals and Totalitarians in one since both parties don’t work as they say the system is broken but offer NO solutions. The only solutions I see that are ON PAPER, not talk on a Blog (including my own Blog), are coming from Conservatives. The Tea Party, also another vestige of Conservatives. All the progress made in their country came form Conservatism and its foundation of common sense and natural rights philosophy.

                    What has the Libertarian brought us? How about a figure… Ron Paul? LOL! Policy wise… nothing. They have co-opted Conservative ideas and staked claim but no one ever attributes their ideas to them. Too bad for them but its true.
                    Do I think all Libertarians are Ron Paul’s? No. Just like a Conservative in CA is NOT a Conservative unless they can prove it. One major dis-qualifier is this ANNOYING statement from CA Conservatives; “I’m socially Liberal or lean liberal socially and fiscally Conservative.” BULLSHIT! No such thing. For every socially liberal act there is a dollar price to pay and a spiritual price to pay so its a statement which cancels itself out and they are MODERATES LIBERALS.

                    So now that I am winded, to get back to your point… yes, we can find some common ground on some issues but if you think for one second a few issues will unite us is naive. Nor do I want that because that is totalitarianism. I do NOT want to be known as the alternative to the Left. I want debate. I want a fight for ideas NO MATTER who is in the playground. I want common sense to win the day without labels or with. And I want HONESTLY or NO ONE will come to ANY common ground. This starts with “ANY” belief in a higher power. Then education in the home on honestly and integrity and that the truth always win but not always when you want it. Then courage. Then action – actually doing it and suffering the consequences if they turn out bad OR glory with humility if they win.

                    This is Conservatism. Its not a party, its a way of life. Its literal, theoretical and political.

                • Just to clear up a Possible mis-understanding….I am not now nor have I ever been a Libertarian.

                  We don’t have TIME now to TALK …. we don’t have time to persuede with words and somehow convince the Progressives to come to their senses…..

                  Likewise we don’t have time to make sure Every Conservative or conservative-leaning group all thinks alike on every issue….in fact THAT sounds more like Totalitariamism to me.

                  Do you RERALLY think that all of the 13 Colonies were in total agreement in 1776 OR 1787-89 ???

                  • Poli,

                    “We don’t have time, we have to act” sounds an awful lot like the Left’s mantra.

                    You might want to be careful with that. Acting out of fear and emotion is one of the reasons we are where we are now :-)

                    • Don’t take me out of context Joe… what I was referring to was clearly the disarray in the right. Between the Libertarians, Conservatives and Establishment fighting too much and we will lose sight on the real enemy. So now, we get to the point, that there is one single true topic that crosses all divides (or it should) and that is a laser focus Progressives.

                      But in the light of recent Libertarian words and acts this one topic may not be their motivation. I am getting the sense their no different than the left – and all or nothing attitude. Either they get all the GOP power or they are going to help the demise.

                      I am sure I was clear on this, debate is healthy and required in our system and some divide is too. But when it fogs our view of the REAL enemy we lose.

                    • Poli,

                      The enemy is not the Left, but their ideas. “The Left” is still people — individuals. If we are going to think of them in terms of THEM being the enemy, then we are no different than they and we will lose (because they have fewer moral reservations).

                      Besides, you decry the divide between should-be allies on the Right, how do you ever hope to win any allies from the Left if we constantly view and speak of them as our enemies?

                      Personally, I am coming to understand the goal should be to teach the principles of liberty and to do whatever we can to get people to embrace that agenda rather than to continue playing our part in this self-feeding game of back-and-forth. And THAT is why I say the Right is the flip side of the same coin. Time to stop playing the game. :-)

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