Just a Few Questions for Our Leftist Friends to Chew on…

I was thinking about our friends on the Left today: specifically, about how they always position themselves as the “educated,” or “intellectual” among us, and how this is usually framed to imply that anyone and everyone who disagrees with them does so out of ignorance.  And this brought me to wonder how this group of supposedly “educated intellectuals” never seems to see the problems with their positions.  Here’ let me explain what I mean.

On the issue of gun control:

Why would the “intellectual elite” care about people dying from gun violence when the majority of their leaders actually want to reduce the global population by about 67%?

Why would the “intellectual elite” care about people dying from gun violence when the majority of them care little for the individual?  Even for the rank-and-file, it’s all about the collective.

Do you suppose that gun control might actually be about a different agenda other than “saving” people?

On the issue of whose money is it anyway:

I was listening to several news stories today about tax the tax code “allowing” you to use your savings for this or that, and one story said a certain savings account could even be used for private schooling.

Well, if it is my money, why do I need the government to “allow” me to spend it the way I want?

And if money is actually a representation of our labor – and it is – doesn’t this actually mean I need the government to “allow” me to work for what I want?

And if the government can grant or withhold permission to do what I want with my labor, isn’t that slavery?

So how does the Left miss the FACT that personal income taxes = government slavery?  Do you think the progressive tax code may indicate an alternative agenda – something other than what the Left claims it is intended to do?

On the issue of mandatory schooling?

If public education is actually about educating children and not about indoctrination, then why do children have to start so young?

And why does the government resist vouchers, or allowing parents tax credits to send their children to private schools?  After all, the Left’s leaders send their children to private schools.

And if the objective is to educate, then why does the government support the teachers’ resistance to standardized testing?  The government has a measure for everything else, why not scholastic achievement?

Do you think that mandatory education might actually be part of a different agenda, an agenda that is never openly expressed (at least, not now that Dewey is dead)?

About licensing:

If we are free to pursue happiness, then why does the government require you to have a permit to run most businesses?  Isn’t a permit another form of “permission” as well as a tax?  And doesn’t that take us right back to our government masters owning us?

Do you suppose that licensing might have more to do with control than regulation?

About the media:

If the media is not liberal and only pursues profit, then why do we have 7 Leftist networks (Pravda West) and 1 pseudo conservative network (FOX)?  And why do those Leftist networks continue with their Leftist agenda when their ratings are tanking as well as their profits while FOX’s ratings soar?

Better yet, why do BOTH the Leftist and FOX media resist alternative media such as GBTV, especially when GBTV’s ratings are superior to many of the programs currently on ANY of the other networks?

And if the media isn’t biased – including “conservative media,” – then why do they join forces to support Al Jazeera on national networks while blocking anyone else such as the Blaze TV?

Do you suppose the fact that 15 people control what you see on TV might have anything to do with all this censorship?

 

Anyway, I just thought I’d throw some of that out there for our Leftist friends to chew on – not that I expect them to see any of the internal contradictions or anything  ;-)

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56 thoughts on “Just a Few Questions for Our Leftist Friends to Chew on…

  1. “If public education is actually about educating children and not about indoctrination, then why do children have to start so young?”

    They start young because it’s important to develop those motor skills, writing skills, letter recognition, number counting, shape recognition, color recognition, social skills to interact with other children, etc… “If America wants all its children to be ready for school, it must improve the quality of child-care experiences available in this country.”

    I’m not sure why you’re against educating kids at a young age in order to put them on a productive path. How is that a “leftist” idea?

    • Every single thing you mentioned can be …and USED TO BE…done in homes. And kids developed Social Skills while playing with other Kids and Friends who also weren’t locked up in a “class-room” at 2-3 years old

      And your assumption that so-called “..Educating..” Kids at a young Age is what is necessary to….”Put them on a Productive Path ..”….Speaks volumes about ( 1) your lack of Faith in the Children and their Families to decide what is a Productive path without your “Expert” intervention; and (2) The exalted Position you assign to “Teachers”, their Union and Gov’t guidelines as THE arbitors of what is and what is Not Proper and Productive .

      You have espoused Perfectly the Progressivist-Elitist position…….that parents aren’t competant to do anything but Breed, and children should be ensconsed in the clutches of the Dept of Education as soon as Diaper Duty would no longer be a nuisance to the…”Educators”.

      • Don,

        Don’t be so quick to condemn Language, he or she may not know the history here. We who do need to try hard to find compassion for those who may be as much victim of Progressivism as they are soldier. However, once they either reject your attempts to help them learn history or demonstrate that they already know it, THEN you are justified in opening up with full broadsides ;-)

        • Full Broadside…

          I was a Horatio Hornblower huh !? My Bad ….. :- ( .

          It is probably better to let the rope untwine more before letting the Victim / Soldier “hang” theyselves. His/her first comment just reaked of distain and disrespect from the starting gate.

          • Don,

            Yes, but first impressions can mislead. HOWEVER, as it stands now, we know — from the comments this person made — that they feel no need to support their assertions or to try to help others learn/understand. At this point, they have placed themselves firmly on the side of Dewey — whether they realize it or not.

            So, as you say, I just wanted to let them have a little more rope — just to make sure. And, hey, we didn’t even have to jerk it tight for them: they did it themself. ;-)

        • Language,

          Other options? Do you have ANY idea how difficult the government is making it to chose “other options?” You are starting to sound like you are well versed at “Saying it without Saying it”

    • Language,

      I can only assume you have no knowledge of John Dewey and the modern American public education system. I assume this because you leaped to the conclusion that I am against education (btw: that – in itself – is leftist “programming”). I never said I am against education. What I oppose is indoctrination, which is EXACTLY what public education is — and the people driving it have openly said so ;-)

        • Am I assume that this reply means you don’t care about the driving forces behind our education/indoctrination system? Or do you support social engineering in the guise of education?

          • You can assume all you’d like. I need to be productive for the day, and this interaction doesn’t seem like it’s going to be a productive one. See other comments for examples. Best of luck with everything.

            Ps. We probably agree more than you think, but I can see this isn’t the proper forum to have that discussion.

            • Really? OK, but no one who has come here with a sincere desire to have a rational conversation has ever been treated rudely. In case you missed it, I even chastised Don for jumping on you before finding out where you stand. So I’m not sure why you’d make this comment, but if that’s the way you feel…

              Just understand this: your comment will tend to leave those who are politically awake with the impression that you are closer to the person Don assumed you to be than what you claim to be.

              • @Joe This is kind of why I backed away from the conversation until I was done being productive for the day. You’re making references about lynching and/or hanging myself, figuratively of course, when we’re trying to have a “productive” conversation about the importance of education. How am I supposed to work with that? Seriously?

                You can rail against the government all you want. If you don’t like something, change it or leave. I didn’t jump to any conclusion that you were against education. I quoted what you said, and made a point. I don’t know you, or what you think about the entire education system. I can only make assumptions, which are never 100% correct, that you have a problem with the education system. I quoted you in a previous reply because that’s the point I wanted to talk about, early education. It can be done at home, it can be done at school, or it can be done in both places. This notion that people are waiting for Superman (insert leftist reference here) to come save their child is nonsense, but it’s a reality at the same time. If you think I don’t believe people should educate their own children with fundamental skills, I think you have me confused with some other “liberal.” ;) The method in which those skills are taught is indeed in question? Whatever works for individual families is best left up to them, right? In a Utopian society, it would all work out and families would teach their kids and we would all be prepared. We don’t live in that type of society though, do we?

                @Don You call people elitist and snobs, but at the same time you don’t find it ironic that you act like one? I’m interested in your background before we go any further. Your aggressiveness is rather awkward for any type of conversation…

                @thatmrguy I used to call them English Teachers too. I’m not sure why they changed it. Perhaps to encompass Literature and Writing. I teach both. That being said, it’s nothing different from what my English Teacher taught me in the early 1990′s. It’s true, not all kids are meant to go to college, but you have to at least prepare them if they want to pursue that future. I always tell my students that you don’t have to be smart to go to college; you have to be able to finish, finish, finish whatever tasks you have in front of you.

                Good day to you Gentleman…

                Ps. When the kid isn’t ready for school and has trouble adjusting, people turn around and blame the public education system. Nobody sees a cycle and/or connection there?

                • LA,

                  Fair enough. But for the record: I was not thinking of “lynchings” as much as a dog running out of chain. You may not believe me, but it’s true. I simply do not think the way so many of us do in our society today (the regulars here will attest to that…LOL).

                  Oh, and yes, it is the “system” to which I object — but only because I understand what it was built to do and why, and I know that because I read what the people who built it said it was intended to do.

                  • We can agree to disagree on some points, but I know what you’re saying about the “system.” I understand the game of life as well as the game of education. However, with all that knowledge, one must still use it (education) as a tool to propel oneself and be productive as well as successful.

                • @ LA,

                  I went to school in the sixties and seventies. ;)

                  As I’ve said before, I think the parent is ultimately responsible for their child’s education. If you as a parent don’t show interest in their school work, how can you expect them to? But that being said, teachers have the student’s rapt attention(sic) about seven hours a day. The parents might have two or three hours in the evening after getting home from work and preparing dinner.

                  Kids aren’t as prepared for life when they graduate high school today like they were in your day or especially mine. A lot has to do with federal intrusion into local school districts, a one size fits all approach. Government, read Teacher’s Unions, continually fight against alternative education, ie., School Vouchers, School Choice and Home Schooling. Don’t get me wrong…there are good teachers out there, you might be one of them, but there is also a plethora of mediocre and bad teachers out there who we can’t get rid of because of the Unions.

                  Our schools today are more interested in teaching political correctness than in teaching the basic skills needed to survive in today’s world. They need to be teaching the three R’s, not why Johnny’s got two mommies. I don’t want my kindergartener learning that “It’s okay to be gay” at school. That is the responsibility of the parent and besides, a five or six year old kid doesn’t need to be taught that stuff anyway. They are not mature enough to understand it. We have the head of the National Department of Education, (a worthless bureaucrat mess by the way), Arne Duncan, who is promoting sex education to students as young as five years old.

                  I would like to see you address the other points I made about a classical education in my previous comment. Don’t you think subjects like those would be more likely to provide students with the proper tools to continue on in life?

                  • @Thatmrgguy We couldn’t agree more when you say it’s, ultimately, a parent’s responsibility to educate their child. Teachers and parents are supposed to be a tag team effort, but too many times somebody is coming up short on both sides.

                    I agree kids aren’t as prepared for life as they used to be, but folks probably said that about my generation when I was a kid. I think in life, you have your success stories and not so successful stories. It’s all dependent on your work ethic. I tell my students, it’s not about where you start in life – it’s where you finish in life.

                    I see your points with foundations and what’s considered classic learning being important. That being said, education has to evolve with the times and infuse classical information in with modern times because times have changed. I coach as well, and I’m all about fundamentals on the field as well as in the classroom. If kids are taught the fundamentals of reading and writing, stand back and they will take care of the rest. If you’d like to checkout some of the curriculum, here it is: http://lablog101.wordpress.com/laliterature/ (Literature) & http://lablog101.wordpress.com/curriculum-maps/ (Writing). I’m in my third year of teaching, and I try to equip my students with fundamentals skills as well as critical thinking skills that will take them on their journey – whatever that journey in life is for them.

                • And just why do you make a distinction between these two ???

                  “one must still use it (education) as a tool to propel oneself and be productive as well as successful. “

                • “…@Don You call people elitist and snobs, but at the same time you don’t find it ironic that you act like one? I’m interested in your background before we go any further. Your aggressiveness is rather awkward for any type of conversation…”

                  I don’t feel that I do act like one .
                  … I would suggest a Review of your first Comment ( the Opening Comment to Joe’s wonderful Post No less). The attitude behind it was AND IS full of condescension. And in fact the tenor of your subsequent reponses articulate that very attitude. That You don’t see this is, is more a reflection on your self-assessment abilities than it is on the other Commentors. To Wit…in a later comment to Joe you said…”I didn’t jump to any conclusion that you were against education. I quoted what you said, and made a point….” But let’s review what in fact you DID say …. “I’m not sure why you’re against educating kids at a young age …”

                  This pretty much speaks for itself. As to backround….for you OR me….that is irrelevent to two people discussing anything unless a good modicum of Technical knowledge is predicate on True and Deep understanding of the Topic. But this retreat to the realm of “Expertise” is a common one for the Left to engage in. Indeed your first Solo here was rife with rhetorical assumption about an assumed “expertise” in education. My comment merely highlighted the points … For the future I would suggest reviewing your post for any awkwardness contained within it.

                  • Everybody else I’ve conversed with seems to be pretty rational as well as logical. However, you continue to feel the need to be very verbose, aggressive and now elusive for whatever reason. Best of luck with that…

                • You opened the thread with an attack … one which you went on to prove to Joe, by your own “points”. Though he is more diplomatic than I in pointing it out….it si clear none the less.

                  Then you attack again instead of addressing my very specific concerns with your posts. And a post directed to your very specific comment to me. You feign injury for lack of Brevity, and yet my post above….but two lines…was ignored. It quoted one line from you and asked a simple question. I understand you must retreat into your “expertise” and attack rhetorical style…..it is comforting for you. The points I made though remain like well….dangling Metaphors….with your avoidance in answering them.

                  I understand what you’re trying to do here….and your methods. I am more direct, but the others aren’t fooled. Joe’s major point is the State Promulgated Propaganda machine that masquerades as an Education system. Your stated point is that Kids need guidence in order to learn reading and writing and so to Succeed “Productively”. They are like two polynomial equations describing two parallel lines. With no intersection possible. Of course kids need that. But that doesn’t address the Body of the sub-argument of Joe’s post.

                  But you see it wasn’t intended to. It was intended to argue a line of reasoning appealing to emotion. And by association imply that Joe’s point was somehow found wanting . You DID say clearly Joe was against education…..I showed your quotes in my post above.

                  If you find this verbosity a challange… there is still my query to you about distinguishing between being successful and Productive. I leave you with a phrase you have used to others in this thread…..Best of Luck with that.

                  • Don,

                    You’re wasting your time. Whether he/she is aware of it or not, LA has internalized the Progressive ideal. But then, how could it be any other way: that is the whole core of the “education major’s” curriculum in college and has been for decades.

  2. The Progressive Elitism and Snobbery notwithstanding from your first responder…….This is an excellently put Rhetorical Post Herr Bakanovic.

    A small addendum..: Personal Income Tax = Government Slavery = Private Property Confiscation . They form the Perfect Triade.

    • Don,

      True, but — as you may know — I consider private property to be an extension of your labor. Therefore — to my way of thinking — if I own your life, I own both your labor and your property ;-)

      • Yes I agree … always interested in putting things in terms that the Average person uses today.

        I think even some Conservatives don’t yet see that Personal income is the same as Private property ( which they automatically associate with their House and other physical objects.)

        • Don,

          True, but we have to understand there is a difference between moveable property and property such as our house. One is a natural right, the other ONLY exists because of the social contract. What many on the right do not understand is that this DOES grant society some control over that type of property.

          What the Left TOTALLY misses is that it was set up to function as a property right by the contract and, therefore, society does not “own” that property.

  3. The Evil Empire, it right out of Star Wars. Soros plays the part of the Emperor and Obama fits right in as Darth Vader. Unfortunately, the well informed and moral society has nominally declined past the point we make a difference in what we allow Government (at all levels) to demand of us to live under their leadership. Our Founding Fathers warned us this would happen if we turned our back on God. Fast forward to 2013 and we stand at the precipice and are about to go off the cliff. We may still be the freest people in the world but by the end of Obama’s reign this may no longer be the case. Fortunately, their is freedom for those from all of mans evil intentions in Christ. They can’t control your mind, heart and soul. We win they loose.

    • Kels,

      I used to believe that, but no longer. Do you know how many teachers go into education because they want to “change the world?” And they do not mean change it by educating, they mean change it by indoctrinating.

      And remember, I have several family and friends inside the education system… ;-)

  4. Language Arts Teacher…hmmm, back in the day, we used to call her/him an English teacher. ;)

    The problem is that the left controls most of the teaching cadre as well as most of the publishing houses. Parents and local communities have no say in the textbooks their kids are taught out of. Some of the subjects taught our kids today are almost unrecognizable from what we were taught at the same age. And some of the subjects aren’t even taught anymore.

    We need to go back to what’s called a classical education with impetus on the three R’s in the early years, then on to critical thinking, logic and rhetoric as well as World History and languages. Greek and Latin used to be taught in our schools.

    Back when I was in school, we studied Aristotle, Plato and Socrates, Philosophers from whom some of the basic precepts were used by the Founders in the establishment of The United States of America.

    Another thing that is lacking in a lot of schools are music and art appreciation, as well as industrial arts. I remember shop class in sixth grade, Graphic Arts in Eighth grade and again, shop all through high school.

    Not all kids are meant to go to college. Nor should they if they don’t want to, but there’s nothing wrong with a vocational or technical education. Where else are our plumbers, carpenters and mechanics going to come from? I have yet to see a robot (or most college professors) that can climb under a sink to repair leaky plumbing.

  5. @ LA,

    Glad we agree on a few things. ;)

    I think the point Joe was trying to make was that the government’s push to directly fund early education is not a good thing. They would be better off using vouchers and tax breaks to give parents leeway in where they want their children to attend Pre-K or other early education opportunities. Government mandated programs always cost more than anticipated and choice is a dirty word.

    Before a parent enrolls their child in any pre-school program, they should do a little research. Visit the school in the middle of the day and with the permission of the school administrator, visit the classrooms and see what the curriculum is like. Ask questions. You could even go so far as to ask other parents what they think of the school.

    Another thing that I’ve said and it can’t be said enough, is that parents need to read to their children, even if it’s only ten minutes a night. Even kids as young as a year old can start showing an interest in reading. I used to read my kids Pop-Up books, graduating to others as they got older. Also let your kids see you reading. As a friend once said…If a kid sees his parents reading, they will pick up books and read themselves, just like if a kid sees their parents using “Crack”, then they will see that as normal behavior and copy it.

  6. @ Joe and DonAmeche,

    I believe we need to give LA a chance here. I think he got off on the wrong foot with his first comment and it’s sometimes hard to get back on the right foot after that. But haven’t we all done that?

    LA seems like an intelligent guy and it’s possible we might be able to sway him to our side of the argument. He’s only been an educator for three years so isn’t firmly ensconced with the leftist mindset yet. Lets not push him off on the wrong side of the fence just yet, huh? ;)

    Check out his blog about teaching and see what he’s about. I think he may be more of a Libertarian than Liberal.

    • Mr. G,

      I thought I tried to extend that hand of friendship — several times??? I defended him against Don, then offered the possibility that he might be taking things the wrong way. His reply was nothing more than the same ambiguous hand-waving and refusal to directly engage the conversation that we’ve become accustomed to from the Progressives. And even then, I STILL proffered that he may not be aware that he has internalized these characteristics because of his schooling.

      What more can I do sort of prostrate myself to his — at this point — unsupported opinion? :-(

      • I was just throwing it out there Joe. After his first possibly ill advised comment when Don sort of jumped on him, he was on the defensive and put himself in an untenable position. That’s my feeling anyway. I could be wrong…wouldn’t be the first time.

        • Mr. G,

          I don’t disagree. I just figured I’d point out I tried that — and was still trying it in my later comments (though, admittedly, in a less charitable manner).

          On the flip side, if the hand of friendship is offered and you slap it… :-(

        • We haven’t spoken much Mr Guy…. although I have enjoyed and agreed with many of your comments Both here and at another site.

          I didn’t “sort of Jump” on him…. I pounced with full disclosure.
          And I further described my reasoning . I am nothing if not honest…..no subterfuge here. I feel ( And felt) there was dripping agenda and Snark from the word go so to speak from this Commenter. His / Her Subsequent comments have proven this to be true, irrespective of the attempts at “Tone” modification on everyone’s part.

          This is not an attempt on my part to “rehabilitate” my standing vis a vis this poster. It is rather to say what I inferred from my first response……that this Commenter expresses a belief in their superiority wrt opinions on education. And resorts to appeals to arguments that noone has any objection to….That our children should have the Best education. The issue Joe brought up was , who is to decide what is the Best education…..and why should the “State” be the arbitor of when and where and How OUR children should proceed forward to school.

          This issue was NOT addressed by the Commentor. What was, was the position that questioning The Education System was somehow akin to saying you ( Joe, Me & anyone NOT agreeing with the Commenter) were against Education at all. A reductio ad absurdum I’m sure You are familior with from your own Dialogues with the Left. I saw it early and called it out for what it was. But you are right…I didn’t extend my hand first and say… ” let me hold your hand while I restate what you just said and what it means”.

          • LoL, brethren you need help… Your comments are almost laughable. I hesitated to even respond, but out of pure comedy I figured I would. It’s hard to hold a serious conversation with somebody that calls somebody an elitist as well as a snob, but continues to act like one in the same breath. Your words for example, “I pounced with full disclosure.” or “This is not an attempt on my part to “rehabilitate” my standing vis a vis this poster.” or But” you are right…I didn’t extend my hand first and say… ” let me hold your hand while I restate what you just said and what it means”.

            Do you review what you type, or do you actually believe you can have a productive conversation like this? Somebody that doesn’t agree with you, or somebody that may have a different point of view isn’t your enemy. Just means they see things differently. Joe and MrGuy have shown to be rational people that can write without insults or being aggressive.

            Hoss, I don’t need rehabilitating on any of my beliefs about education or life in general. I haven’t drank as much koolaid as you may think I have. As for my tone modification request, it’s a matter of respect between two grown men. I’m not sure why you are so against civilized conversation between two people with differing points of view. If there is anything you’d like to ask, please feel free to ask or discuss in a civilized manner…

      • Joe says…
        “I defended him against Don”

        And I will never forget that……cause us Elephants and Loooong Memories ans well as noses, LOL….. :- ) .,

    • @thatmrguy I think you are correct in saying that parents should have the right to chose what they would like to do with their children at a preschool age. Giving people a choice is always a good thing. Personally, my child will be in preschool as well as receiving fundamental skills at home. You are so correct about reading to children at a young age. Your assessment in my political affiliation is also correct. I’m not sure how I came off as a left leaning type of person…lol Seriously though, there are some good social programs that I believe in, and there are programs that are wasteful as well as unnecessary. I’m a firm believer in common sense.

      @Joe I appreciate the symbolic gesture, but we don’t have to be friends or even see eye to eye about this. We just have to agree to disagree about certain things and respect each other. I’m under no illusion that school and school alone will be the savior for all people. If hard work isn’t applied at the same time, might as well hang it up. I “never mistake activity with achievement.” I’ve become lost in the reply thread somewhat so forgive my scattered thoughts. I did notice mention of my schooling as well as being an Education major. I was actually an English major with a minor in Philosophy at the University of Louisville. I took the long route to become a teacher via post-bacc for a secondary cert. Perhaps I’m confused on your stance on education, and I can admit I may have jumped the gun in my original post when I singled out a specific point, but it’s one that I wanted to talk about. However, I may have not had the entire picture. You had some very interesting points about “On the issue of mandatory schooling?” Personally, I think standardized tests are very important in measuring achievement of students as well as effectiveness of teachers. Due to privacy issues, I cannot speak specifics, but I am very proud of the #’s my students produce. I’m not a part of a union, and I don’t plan on being a part of one unless absolutely necessary. It’s my belief that if I’m not effective, and I’m not performing in the classroom, it’s time for me to reevaluate what I’m doing in the classroom as well as for a profession. I’m a strong believer in data driven instruction because it pinpoints problematic areas. I also believe that a test doesn’t measure all levels of intelligence and different assessments are necessary to gauge the previously mentioned. I teach life skills along with reading/writing comprehension skills. There is more, but I think I’ve gone on a little too much ;) So what is your stance on education in general terms?

      • LA,

        I differentiate between education and indoctrination, for one. An education can be had with nothing more than a library and desire, whereas indoctrination requires collective organization. I happen to think we have way too much of that (social engineering, if you prefer) in our public schools today. We inherited it from Dewey, and it is perpetuated by his heirs — men such as William Ayers, no less.

      • No problem Don. I think LA can be a valuable contributor to our discussions. I would hope that he will weigh in on other issues besides education.

        Just as an interesting aside…My Dad grew up in the same town as the famous actor, Don Ameche. They played football either with or against each other in High School. My Dad was from the German side of town.

  7. Looks like you guys and gals had a good conversation. That LAteacher looked like he walked into a hornet’s nest. I don’t get why they think they can spew that liberal bull crap. DonAmeche you really showed him what was what. Joe and DonAmeche made for a good one two punch. I remember when I was on another lefty blog and the blog owner and another “commenter” double teamed me like that. Turns out they were the same posters. Blog owner made up a alter blog ego to kind of steer the conversation or argument. Go figure! Leave it to them to pull that

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