There is an article over at the Washington Post site that I have been commenting on. It is interesting to see some of the comments and themes that we have addressed here on our little site. My commentary has been pretty much cut and paste because we have hashed this over and over.
The Rio Norte Line
Est. 2010 – "Dishonest, diversionary and pompous…"
capitalism isn’t moral, neither is socialism. Marxism is an amoral paradigm. It does away with morality, because morality is not a concrete thing, it changes with the times. Blacks could not vote in 1776, although the declaration of independence said all men were endowed with certain inalienable rights. The truth Marxism brings to the working class isn’t “capitalism is morally bad” it is “class struggle exists, do not let capitalist ‘morality’, keep you from participating in class struggle.” Yes Marxism creates greed and envy, but it is not greed and envy for material goods, it is greed and envy for power, and what else would you expect the powerless majority to want. You Randroids are laughable in assuming a free market prevents the golden rule of private property, He has the gold ,makes the rules..
And you stupid Marxists are all the same – he who is highest up in the central committee makes the rules – and orders dumbasses like you to the salt mines for the glory of the state. It seems inconceivable that you don’t get that after history has proven it over and over. In a capitalist economy, the bad actors get punished by the free market for the decisions they make – in a socialist economy the planners punish the citizens for the decisions the planners make. Power is power you poor imbecile. In a socialist economy it is wielded by influence and not by money. The free exchange of money is a hell of a lot more transparent that the back room deals cut by central planners with total power.
Karl,
Marxism is an IMMORAL paradigm — because it must be forced on others (per your own admission).
WRONG! Learn your history. There WERE parts of Colonial America where blacks could vote. Have you ever checked the picture of the Battle of Lexington and Concord? One of the first casualties of the Revolution was a FREE black man. And guess what? There is a FREE black man in the boat with Washington crossing the Delaware. You see, you are the ignorant victim of Progressive revisionism.
Class struggle does NOT exist. There is no such thing as a class. This is why you cannot show me a class or get it on the phone. It exists ONLY in your head — and then, ONLY for the purpose of enabling you to exploit others by appealing to their greedy and envy so you can appease your own.
WRONG! Marxism is the result of a lazy, greedy and envious man who failed at everything he ever did — except setting the world on fire and leading directly to the murder of 120+ MILLION INDIVIDUALS!
WRONG — AGAIN! EVERYTHING Marx runs his gator about deals with the material. There can be NOTHING BUT the material in a world without God and morality (IDIOT!)
Yeah, I guess that’s why the guy who invented turn-flavored tooth paste is the richest man in the world (IDIOT!)
Karl, Rand just put Marx’s ideas into a form that actually works — because she understood human nature. Now, before you type another word, you need to show the RNL an example in history where this Marxist BS has ever worked WITHOUT COERCION!
Until you do that, you are admitting (by default) that you are nothing but a snake oil salesman spouting off about pie-in-the-sky dreams of a utopia that — even could it exist — would serve only to make YOUR life better.
Has the free market ever existed? if it did how did it degenerate into what it is now? Was it a commie conspiracy? Or was it not true free-market capitalism? If it has existed and it degenerated, then does that disqualify it as an ideology? If it has never existed, then can it be proven to work?
YES! The first time one man bartered with another, THERE was the free market. The “Back” market in Communist countries IS the free market.
It degenerated into what it is now due to corrupt and evil people — and that includes the supposed “do-gooders” who claim to be making things equal (i.e. Communists/socialists/ Progressives).
So, Karl, you missed — A-GAIN!
Karl means “free” in the sense that he can get it for free – like the “free” money, phones and healthcare that the rest of us are paying through the anus for him to have.
Workers of the world, unite!
Karl is just upsetbecause I challenged him in a way that even HE knows he cannot answer. Instead, he reversed it and tried to put it back on me. But I have answered his challenge and he still has no answer for us. That means we ARE correct and he IS wrong — he’s just to arrogant and prideful to admit it (or his sloth, envy and greed).
Does the fact that it degenerated, prove the ideology is invalid? Socialism in the Soviet Union degenerated, but not because of “corrupt and evil people,” it degenerated because it was an early attempt at socialism in a not very developed country. If you claim socialism is invalid because an earlier form degenerated, does it not mean that free-market capitalism is also invalid? I am not making the same argument against capitalism that you make against socialism. I’m just pointing out your logic and how it very well applies to free-market capitalism.
I have a question for the sake of clarification. Are we speaking about Capitalism as we know it, or the free market? Because, as you know, I no longer accept the argument that they are the same thing.
I just made that point for you. I wrote
Good enough, thanks.
BTW: the comments are a little hard to follow when they get north of…750+
Right, capitalism is not intrinsically moral or immoral anymore than a gun can get up in the morning, drive the car to a grammar school and shoot people. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? It seems to me like a lot of folks in this country are spending all their time looking for scapegoats to blame our country’s problems on instead of looking in the mirror. Following their President’s example, I would imagine.
I would urge these folks to stop looking to capitalism, government or anything external to help them, feed them or save them. Instead, look within yourself for these answers. How do they think our ancestors built this big, rich country? Certainly not by waiting for any man, much less any government for help.
The interesting question is rather morality is even relevant to Capitalism or not. If it is relevant, then who’s ethics are we applying to Capitalism to say if it is moral or not? (If it isn’t good for the Marxist state, is anything really moral at all?) If it is not relevant, then why the heck are we even having this discussion!? Do the economic disciplines of Capitalism’s alternatives (namely Marxists) have some sort of hidden axe to grind out behind the wood shed? Furthermore, do we even really understand Capitalism as a whole to even competently pose the question: “is Capitalism moral?”. Perhaps these questions are rhetorical in nature, but for the sake of answering the question, I think it has been summed up pretty well on this comment thread. No reason to beat the dead horse.
Except that we seem to enjoy beating and being beaten! You are right, no economic system is inherently moral or immoral – they are amoral. It is the cultural and societal rules that influence them one way or the other. Culture drives everything.
Will you be capable to guidebook me for your website owner or even the man who looks after your blog, I’d like to determine it will be easy to be described as a guest poster
Skip,
Our direct email addresses are in the right hand margin. Scroll down and email the person you’re looking for. Utah is the owner, I am a full administrator. Hope this helps.
Joe