Although this pains me, I shall go against my nature.
Yesterday, I read a post that disturbed me greatly. So much so, that I lost my temper….
Here it is:
” No, I don’t support our troops, why would I?
“It’s patriotic to support our troops!”
I can understand if you feel like that, but allow me to ask a single question, “why?” Why am I less of an American or less patriotic if I don’t support the people who are acting against my beliefs in almost every conceivable way? Why should I have to shut my mouth and “support our troops” even though I absolutely hate the fact that they are killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people?
Patriotism is being proud of the country you live in, proud of what it is supposed to stand for. Patriotism is trying to return our country to it’s former glory, it’s non-interventionist roots, trying to restore the dignity we once had, the courage and honor our military and our people once stood for. Patriotism is hard working Americans providing for themselves and their families, earning, saving, building and creating a better world to live in for future generations. I will NOT support a group of people who are directly opposed to those ends.
“But Jon, they just killed Bin Laden!!!”
Why should I care about that? Great, they guy is dead. But now they are going to use his death to incite fear in the public over blowback, you know, retaliation. They are going to fear-monger the hell out of us until we are begging them to put new restrictions on everything. “Freedom” is a word that is going to be used to describe a more totalitarian society of limited EVERYTHING. If you think TSA is bad, wait until we start putting checkpoints at the entrances of every major highway and on the boarders of every state.
“What about those who joined the Army and are against the war, or those that joined before it started?”
They don’t exist. I don’t believe anyone in their right mind would willingly join the armed forces if they were against the war, and everyone who was in prior to this war has had many many many opportunities to de-enlist.
“But Jon, there is something called ‘stop-loss’ that is keeping a lot of servicemen in the armed forces”
For 10 years? Improbable. Yes, it exists, but it extends your service in the military by 10-15 months, I stand by the previous comments.
“But Jon, They are fighting for our freedom! They are risking their very lives to protect us!!”
From what and from who? What freedoms were being preserved in Iraq? Which one of our freedoms is being threatened in Iran? Last I checked, the official reasoning behind our current occupations was to “protect our foreign interests” and NOT “to protect our freedom.”
“I just don’t agree, I think you have to support our troops even if you don’t support the fight we are engaging in”
Well, you are not alone. The government feels that way as well. They actually force me to give them money to support a war and a fight that I want nothing to do with. I have a choice, either hand this money over, or go to jail. Honestly though, most employers take your tax money before you get your check so you, literally, cannot chose the second option anyway.
I do not support our current occupation of foreign countries. I also do not support the troops who have voluntarily joined the forces to participate in these wars. I see no reason why I should support them. I see no logical argument as to why my lack of support is un-patriotic.
I also think the best way anyone can show their patriotism is by bringing our troops home and ending this mess we are in across the globe.”
My reply on this blog was this: “The troops are fighting for the rights that you have (e.g.to speak freely). Is it their fault that an administration sent them to a land that has not been conquered?
Don’t kill the messenger. In other words; support the troops.They have your back. They are just taking orders.”
And the reply to me from someone else: “Well, yes. They chose to join up knowing that they probably would be sent off to fight. Also, land that has not be conquered? Seriously?”
And my response: “When? Occupation and conquering are completely different. I suppose you’d prefer we revert to the “draft”? Give credit where credit is due. You’re placing the blame on the people doing the dirty work and not the leaders. Pity on you, I say. Here, I’ve got a special little sumpin sumpin just for you (if your attention span can withstand the 5 or so minutes) I truly hope you will see the sacrifice that our troops have made:” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA74zknxxcs&feature=fvsr
Honestly, I didn’t want to sit through a 5-min. video. But I’ve actually watched it four times and cried every time. Hope you watch….
What concerned me was by a comment made by my friend, lovegrove: “As a foreigner, I see the adoration of the military in America, which to outsiders is obvious, as a precursor to fascism. Take care, my colonial friends.”
This got me to thinking. With only some of these tsars being appointed with approval from Congress, but the majority without approval, could there not be a coup d’etat, complete with detention camps throughout the country to facilitate their needs? All the ducks are in a row. If we revolted and there was an American Spring, would we then, in fact, turn to our military for leadership like Egypt did?
The Rio Norte Line 
To your first paragraph ….
Yes, Patriotism is being proud of the country you live in. Patriotism is also supporting those that defend the very liberty you use to besmirch them. Now it’s up to you to support, or not support those that give freely with no choice of where, or what they are sent to do. However, I see where your morality stands. Thankfully our men and women who grab a rifle and stand in front of you protecting your freedom have a different moral code.
To your second paragraph ….
They who are going to use OBL’s death to incite fear in to the public? If you are insinuating that the lowly pawns (our soldiers) are going to this, then I fear you are more misinformed that I had previously understood.
To the rest … I couldn’t bring myself to read any further in to this debacle of a post past “I don’t believe anyone in their right mind would willingly join the armed forces if they were against the war, and everyone who was in prior to this war has had many many many opportunities to de-enlist.”
At this point it’s painfully apparent that you have little to no conception of what a military man, or family is. It’s also apparent you do not give a damn about the sacrifices they make on a daily basis for you. Just so you know, there is no “de-enlist” (god even the use of that shows your blatant ignorance of the subject), and frankly, I did serve, and even re-enlisted know full well I would be called on to my duty (i.e., fight). And guess what? If they’d have my at my age, I would do it again today. And call me a warmonger if you like, but psssssssssst secret for you …. I don’t like war, however … I do love my country, and I do not mind grabbing a rifle and standing in front of you.
However, if your not willing to grab a rifle and stand in front of me, I would just rather you quietly stand behind me and enjoy your milkshake thank you very much.
I posted that I was angered from another person’s post. I then posted this person’s post to show what drew my ire. I thought I made that clear. Please reread my post more carefully. Thanks.
An interesting take, Kelly. I also wrote a post in response to that post. More of an historical ramble though, which is my wont.
I love when you go off on your historical rambles. I always learn something. I seem to pick up nuggets of information where ever my internet travels take me……
Now if I could only retain it…..
Augger,
Start reading everything, dude. You just attacked Kells for something she posted that someone else said.
Oops, I need to take a tip from you and read all the way down before I reply. Duh! (sorry)
I’ve updated the format and hopefully it will make more sense…
One day, I’ll be clever enough to learn the red line thingys that delineate a thought so that I may have people understand what the hello I’m sayin….. I hope this helps……..
For what it’s worth, A., I’ve got your back. Then again that’s probably a frightening thought to you as I can’t figure out the red lines, much less how to load a gun…..
Did have a bit of trouble following who was who! LoL
Just post it to them, and you have my apology. 🙂
Kells,
One comment, for your buddy, lovegrove. It is obvious he is a foreigner as, were he a born and bred American, he would realize the American soldier is unique in that he is not susceptible to the same blind obedience that the majority of the world’s military forces are. This is why fascism may come to this country, but it will require a “civilian defense force, as well funded, well trained and well equipped as the military.” Sort of like the civilian military being built and deployed through the State department and without ANY Congressional consent or oversight.
So, yes, we ARE fascist, but the American soldier is NOT the facilitator of this perversion, he/she still stand in its way (which could be why Obama has sent them and left them over seas).
Otherwise, well done.
Lovegrove is a brit, B. Good call
Will do!
Just out of curiousity, do you believe we would appoint our military to lead were there an uprising? Personally, I think it’s a far-fetched notion. Crap! It’s gettin late!
Once upon a time? No. Today? Yeah, unfortunately, there are too many politicians wearing stars these days. So not only would the civilians try to appoint some of these idiots, they would accept and the soldiers would split over following their orders.
In my day, orders against the American people would have gotten that officer arrested on the spot. There was a survey about this in the mid 1990’s that shocked the govt. I think they have been working to undermine the military ever since.
(just my 2 cents, not speaking for Augger).
Upon the opening of Kingsbay, Green Peace protesters were present. We had “orders”, but fortunately never had to make the choice of following, or not.
Now my personal conspiracy theory surrounds the very focused assault by this administration against our current military forces, and the ever expanding home land security forces lead by Oblamer sycophants.
I’m not say, just sayin’.
@ kells – I think a second series of secessions by states is a more likely scenario.
Looking at various Governors, and how they interact with this POTUS, one can glean that maybe that’s not so far off in the distant future.
“He” said I should be serious…
This is the suck that comes with fighting for your country. They fight and die so that the people have the right to burn the flag.
There is no help in debating this illness. Identify it as damage, adjust your route and go around.
One day, I’ll be clever enough to learn the red line thingys
The red line is center ice; where they drop the puck at the beginning of the game. Any other reference to red line thingys are subservient to this definition 😉
Boys and their sports. I’ll have to call you HockeydadNC. 😉
Here’s one we need to watch. If this is true…
http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/afghans-quran-burning-soldiers-to-face-trial/
Why do you believe it’s not true?
I “believe” it is, but in this day and age, I can’t yet “know” it’s true. Contrary to popular opinion, I don’t just “accept whatever I read.” I’m waiting for confirmation for a couple more sources before I accept this as something that has been done or will happen. 😉
I’ll state it like this then ….
With this bastard abomination of an executive branch, anything demoralizing is quite probable.
You just reminded me of something I watched. It’s profound in that it shows the tangled web of information received these days…..
Remember what I told you before? “All that glitters ain’t gold.”