Faith of Our Founders

I’ll make this one short and sweet. I know what we are taught about our founding today, but most of our modern teachings are based on lies. Our founders were extremely religious men; so religious that it would be irrational to accept the modern claims that they intentionally designed a Constitution that was devoid of the influences of their faith.

It is not my intention to post another argument to the historical facts; I’m going to encourage you to take an hour and listen to someone much more knowledgeable about this subject than I. I consider the clip that follows to be well worth your time – IF you value the true history of our founding. But before you watch, I’d like to call attention to something crucially important to the veracity of the truth of what is in this video. There will be some who will try to tell you this man is trying to sell you a lie, but he is speaking to you about what is contained in the documents he owns – the documents that were actually written by the men who founded this nation. These are not reproductions, they are the actual historic record of this nation. As such, they are – by definition – irrefutable. The truth of their witness is indisputable. Now please spend an hour with the words of our founding fathers:

19 thoughts on “Faith of Our Founders

  1. Rejecting all organs of information therefore but my senses, I rid myself of the Pyrrhonisms with which an indulgence in speculations hyperphysical and antiphysical so uselessly occupy and disquiet the mind. A single sense may indeed be sometimes decieved, but rarely: and never all our senses together, with their faculty of reasoning. They evidence realities; and there are enough of these for all the purposes of life, without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and phantasms. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence.–Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to John Adams August 15, 1820

      • No, he isn’t. He just told us that Jefferson would agree with Barton and the historic record as those are things that are, and are important. From what I know of Jefferson having read so much of his work, I’d say Melfamy affirmed the validity of watching this video and learning about the truth of this nation’s founding and of how others are trying to deliberately erase it so as to open the door for them to destroy our society and rebuild it in whatever image THEY deem more desirable.

        • I took the quote as Jefferson saying that he was tired of religious and spiritual questions, as it was all speculation and had little actual effect, if any, on what happens here on Earth.

          • Only works if you ignore the rest of what he said. The quote on the Jefferson monument would negate your reading of the quote you posted, but then, I suppose we all “find” what we want to find…

  2. Barton again? This zealot’s “work” has been so thoroughly, repeatedly, and authoritatively debunked by so many who have demonstrated it to be riddled with slipshod research, shoddy analysis, and downright dishonestly that I can but wonder how you can admit to have read his stuff, let alone resort to him as an “authority” on this subject, without turning red from embarrassment. Perhaps the handiest debunking is Chris Rodda’s book, Liars for Jesus: The Religious Right’s Alternate Version of American History (2006) (available free on line http://www.liarsforjesus.com/), where she conveniently collects and directly refutes his many mistakes and lies.

    As for original sources, Rodda refers to many. Indeed, that is her modus operandi. She takes Barton’s claims, point by point, and details–tediously at times–how they conflict with the facts as revealed by original sources. Moreover, she has made full copies of all the many documents cited and her book available online free.

    Illustrative of Barton’s lies in the oft told one, repeated in this video, about the Confederation Congress and the Bible. Contrary to Barton’s assertions, Congress did not order any Bibles imported or printed. At a time when local printers could hardly compete with British printers because of a reputation for poor quality, one such printer, Aitken, petitioned Congress in 1782, asking that his Bible “be published under the Authority of Congress,” that he “be commissioned or otherwise appointed & Authorized to print and vend” editions of the Bible, and that Congress purchase some of his Bibles and distribute them to the states. Congress did not grant any of these requests and instead helped him only by passing a resolution recommending his edition based on its chaplain’s report of the satisfactory “care and accuracy” of his work and authorizing him to publish that recommendation. Congress did not “print the Bible” as Barton repeatedly claims in his speeches.

    The irony is that, by knowingly and repeatedly resorting to lies, this would-be champion of a religious right version of history reveals his fears that the real facts fall short of making his case.

    • DOUGINDEEP FINALLY AGREES WITH B3A – and he just said so in his own words!!!

      Thanks for FINALLY agreeing with Barton, doug. I’m glad you FINALLY see the light.

      There you have it, people, dougindeep FINALLY admits he has been wrong and Barton is correct.

      Thanks, doug 🙂

        • That’s because you have been trying to make doug’s words say that the founders were not God-fearing men who thought man had to live in accordance with his law. If you just looked at what doug actually writes and put it in context, you will see he has agreed with me the entire time. He has even said the people who say they have “debunked” Barton are zealots pushing lies.

          I’m just glad doug finally made this all clear and that we can see it for ourselves in his latest post.

          🙂

          • In my mind, the Jefferson quote seemed to imply that that he did not want to be troubled by religion in politics as it would just be another force (like corporations) competing with or taking away the freedoms of the will of the people.

            Although I have a bit of a crush on Doug, I wasn’t trying to make his words into something they were not. I interpreted his dialogue as saying that Barton was recalling an event which did not happen. (specifically, the printing of the Bibles by Congress).

            So where did I meander from that destiny to which you would have me seek?

  3. I know Barton’s claims of Jefferson deep piety, based on a form letter he signed that had “in the year of our Lord Christ” printed on it, have been debunked.
    Jefferson often added to a date, not AD, or the previous example, but ‘according to the Christian calculation’.

    • 1 – that letter exists.

      2 – The reason for the claim that Jefferson believed in a Creator who takes an active interest in human events do NOT rest on this letter.

      This is why I reject Doug and the rest of the revisionists: THEY are cherry-picking, NOT Barton (180 degree rule, remember?)

      “And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever. “

      “[My views on Christianity] are the result of a life of inquiry & reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other.”

      “I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus—very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its Author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great Reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were He to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.”

      “Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.”

      –ALL Thomas Jefferson, and I could cite many, many more similar quotes from his quill. The claim that Jefferson was a deist can ONLY be made by changing the definitions (a fallacy) or ignoring the preponderance of the evidence (another fallacy).

    • Okay. Completely different in the entire context of the letter.
      Did you know that apparently these two uttered each other’s names before they died? Don’t know if that’s true….

      • I don’t mean this to sound the way you will most likely take it, Kells, but I am proud of you for taking time to read the rest of that letter. Now let me ask you, from the last 3-4 paragraphs of that letter, would YOU say that Jefferson counted himself either Deist OR Atheist?

        And, yes, it is true – according to the people who were in the rooms with them. These two were former enemies – not because they differed in what they wanted, but because they differed in how they thought best to get there (remind you of anyone, G?). In their later years, they became best friends.

        • You know, B., I actually do break down and read sometimes. I know it’s ahrd for you to fathom, and I don’t know what possesses me to do so, but it does seem to happen on occassion. Now can I get my ice-cream? I prefer Rocky Road.

          Oh, Jefferson? I think he was probably a Lutheran 😉

          • See, I KNEW you would think I was being ugly – but I wasn’t. I was proud to see that you will actually do your own homework and that you will draw sound conclusions when you do.

            Were I your professor, you might have realized I was paying you a rather lofty compliment. But as I am merely some smug SOB on the computer who you love to hate, naturally my comment was an insult. 🙂

            Personally, I think he was closer to being a Jew – as was Franklin.

  4. Pingback: Faith of Our Founders and the 180 Degree Rule « The Rio Norte Line

  5. Jewish, Lutheran; we’re both stubborn,

    I did naughty things to my profs., so it’s probably best that you are some hammer-servicing SOB on the computer.

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