From Pedantic and Tiresome to Full-on Moronic in Record Speed

This started as a reply to co-blogger melfamy’s drivel and grew too big for the comment section, so here we go:

A Picture of Utah Relaxing at Home
After a Hard Day of Persecuting Muslims.

Oh, my God (I am still allowed to say that in your world, aren’t I?).

You just zoomed right past pedantic and tiresome to full-on moronic in record speed.

You probably think your little Nazi slur at the end was clever but it just demonstrates exactly what I have already written, that, and I quote:

Part of the tag line for this blog is credited to him – he called me “dishonest, diversionary and pompous” as he was in the process of losing yet another argument about some issue. In typical “progressive” fashion, rather than argue my actual positions, most of the time he created a projection of his definition of my position and argued against that. It’s called a “strawman”. It is very easy to win when you control both sides of an argument and can construct an opposing argument that is weak in exactly the areas where your argument is strong – it isn’t a legitimate form of logical debate but it is a common tactic of the political left. I’ve long said that to “win” a debate, these so called “progressives” must create a caricature of Republicans/conservatives/classic liberals in order for their points to have any semblance of validity.

When the “strawman” won’t fall over and burn, they predictably descend to name-calling.

…and you went straight there. Even bought the first class ticket.

To all who read this – everything is proceeding as I have foreseen (see my picture above).

You just built a caricature of my positions and proceeded to argue against that, not what I have posted – and you clearly want to exclude any opinion or evidence that doesn’t fit your template.

I never claimed to want to “eliminate” any Muslim. What I have said repeatedly is that Islam deserves the same scrutiny as Christianity has had and I presented facts, facts that you are apparently powerless to either comprehend or dispute and are clearly uncomfortable with, being that your side is vetting Islam just like you did Obama…and that would be in the category of “not at all”…and we all know how well that is working out, don’t we?

Just as you build a graven idol of the evil of my positions, you have created a world of unicorns and fairy dust to avoid looking at the dark side of a religion that you are simply uncomfortable dealing with. You would rather attack the people asking the questions, not the ones giving the answers. Just like when people say that we can now have that “conversation on race in America”, when it only means that we are racists for talking about it. You can only talk about race if you agree how wonderful it is to have a black president no matter how incompetent he is. You can only talk about Islam if you talk about the “nice” Muslims, not the ones who turn themselves into a red mist as they kill innocents or the ones who shoot fellow Americans while yelling “Allah is great!”. Noooo, can’t say anything about them, why that would be Islamophobic.

Clare Berlinski, writing at Ricochet adds insight:

Now here’s a point you might deeply consider: The neologism “Islamophobia” did not simply emerge ex nihilo. It was invented, deliberately, by a Muslim Brotherhood front organization, the International Institute for Islamic Thought, which is based in Northern Virginia.

Abdur-Rahman Muhammad, a former member of the IIIT who has renounced the group in disgust, was an eyewitness to the creation of the word. “This loathsome term,” he writes, is nothing more than a thought-terminating cliche conceived in the bowels of Muslim think tanks for the purpose of beating down critics.

 In another article concerning the many moderate Muslims whose voices have been drowned out by Saudi-financed Muslim Brotherhood front groups, Muhammad describes the strategy behind the word’s invention:

 In an effort to silence critics of political Islam, advocates needed to come up with terminology that would enable them to portray themselves as victims. Muhammad said he was present when his then-allies, meeting at the offices of the International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT) in Northern Virginia years ago, coined the term “Islamophobia.”

 Muhammad said the Islamists decided to emulate the homosexual activists who used the term “homophobia” to silence critics. He said the group meeting at IIIT saw “Islamophobia” as a way to “beat up their critics.”

If it doesn’t agree with your view, you just don’t want to hear it – and because you didn’t hear it, it doesn’t exist. It is far easier to drop the Nazi or Islamophobe grenade and run than to stick around and see your beloved unicorn die. You want to exclude any act from any Islamic group that doesn’t fit your worldview to force your argument to work – that if crimes are committed in the name of Islam, that automatically means that we can’t talk about those guys as part of Islam (they aren’t “real” Muslims), we can only talk about the “nice” Muslims who dance and sing and prance through the fields filled with poppies. I guess these “nice” Muslims are like the Eloi of H.G. Wells’ Time Machine.

How conveniently discriminatory of you…

Since you brought it up, American liberals (and I include you in that camp) are a lot like Neville Chamberlain, shouting “Peace in our time!” as the forces continue to mass against us. It’s nothing new, the “progressives” never “got” the communist threat in the 50′s and 60′s either – because they agreed with them. Hard to see the danger when you look in a mirror, I guess…after all, it’s just you, right?

Is that what it is, G? Do you agree with the Islamists who have publicly stated that they want to destroy Israel and America? Would the world be better off without either of us?

I hope this is not the case, but that is exactly where your argument goes when extended.

Now what?

Here’s what I think, since you asked.

Belief systems do transcend borders and cultures – therefore, it is absolutely legitimate to observe behaviors that are conducted in the name of Islam outside America as it could well represent future behavior inside our borders. Honor killings only happen in Afghanistan, right? Well, no, they happen in Houston, Texas, too – and it wasn’t a violent Methodist sect doing it. Muslims only kill Americans in repressed, occupied Iraq, right? Well, except for Fort Hood and New York City. Those weren’t those evil Presbyterians.

The point is that an ideology of violence is easily transportable.

We are an open society with no restrictions on what people believe – that you still believe that Bush stole the 2004 election by using the Supreme Court is a perfect example of the crazy things that people believe.

How do you stop an idea or defeat a belief?

I have never called for the persecution of any individual due to their beliefs, Muslim or otherwise – but I do believe that the religion of Islam must be defeated. A belief can only be defeated by a stronger belief – it can never be beaten militarily. We beat Hitler’s armies, yet Nazism is still around. We defeated the USSR but communism still survives. The only way that Islam can be beaten is by Christianity and like all good useful idiots, American liberals have been hacking at the foundations of the last bastion of religious freedom for decades – failing to realize that if they are successful, the repression they presume to labor under today truly will begin in earnest after the collapse of Christianity.

I do believe Christianity is superior to Islam, I will not apologize for that – compare the great societies and human progress under Christianity to that under Islam and the record could not be clearer – as a matter of fact, the advancement of Arabic societies and their formerly great institutions of learning and science started their decline as Islam rose. The most free societies are based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, the most repressive are under atheist or Islamic belief systems…and yes, America is a Christian nation built on these same Christian principles. Islam is not compatible with Christian values and therefore is not compatible with American values.

Just like when you accused me a plagiarism and couldn’t produce anything other than a post where I assumed that the readers would recognize the origin of the text between two continuous posts, basically a poor citation, I will issue the same challenge – find anywhere I have called for what you have just accused me of and I will publicly apologize.

You are just like the fools who claim that cutting taxes is racism, getting an abortion is a “heath issue”, Bush lied or the only possible reason for opposing Obama’s policies is that he is black. The fact that non-Muslims also kill people does not change the fact that Islamists do. You are safe inside your little alternate reality with its unicorns, insulated from harsh facts– unlike the rest of us who are trying to promote honest debate by revealing what we see as gaps in the arguments…and when Christianity is blamed for ruining the world (evil = Nazi = right wing = conservative = Republican = Christian) and Islam gets a pass (Religion of Peace = Islam = unicorns), there are some big gaps to close.

Until such time you prove me a liar, you owe the people writing and commenting on this site an apology for your tasteless, libelous and baseless insults.

I once considered you a bright man – no more. I’m ashamed that I even thought that.

I have been nothing but deferential to you but I will do so no more. You have embarrassed yourself and done significant damage to any credibility that you had. You have sadly revealed your self to be just another emotion driven, screaming and shrieking harpy, bound by a reactionary blood oath to liberalism – well, its not even really liberalism – it is some form of anti-realism…maybe we should call it Disneyism.

You lost any right to assume any moral authority on the subject the second you typed the words “final solution”.

57 thoughts on “From Pedantic and Tiresome to Full-on Moronic in Record Speed

  1. Good post Utah. You’re spot on about the attack on Christianity and the Left’s fear to speak truthfully about Muslims and the Koran… But why do you waste time on melfamy’s meretricious arguments?

    • Frank,

      Don’t you think that not confronting this sort of irrational argumentation is part of the reason it has become so prevalent in our society? Sort of an “it grew because good people did nothing” thing, isn’t it?

  2. I interpreted G.’s post differently than you; I thought it was tongue-in-cheek. As an Atheist, he probably views all religions as a detriment in society and doesn’t single out one in particular. (This I am only assuming after arguing with Atheists.) I don’t know G,’s mind, but that is what I interpreted from his arguments at the Methodist post. Also, I think G. is a bright, funny and kind man, and I am not ashamed to say it. Of course, I don’t know if he can pull off a tux as well as you, but who can?

  3. I am blessed. I live in a metropolitan area, and have friends from all over the world who immigrated here legally because of America’s Promise of opportunity. My immigrant friends have enriched mine and my families lives, and they came here to be Americans and pursue happiness.

    We have friends that immigrated from Muslim & communist countries. Yes, different countries, from the middle east to the south Pacific to Eastern Europe. They were all persecuted because they would not submit. . . My two friends who immigrated from Russia and China have a very similar “life-stories”, only victimized by the Communists. I went to college with a boy from Vietnam. The last time he saw his father, as he and his siblings motored away from the dock in 1975, the Communists were “arresting” his father on the boat dock. I have another friend, whose father faught with Castro in the the Cuban Revolution to oust Batista. After Batista was defeated, Castro murdered him, and all his patriot comrades, because he refused to SUBMIT to Castro’s Communist/Dictatorship.

    Progressives, Marxists (fascists, communists, socialists), Islam. “YOU WILL SUBMIT!”

    I find it interesting that we Judeo-Christian believers never say “enough is enough” and come to the conclusion of a “final solution”. “We” still somehow hope that they will through education and enlightenment, see the truth, and let others alone to chase their own dreams… Now that is faith, because history sure doesn’t support that HOPE.

    I am so tired of their tripe…

    • My friends that immigrated from Muslim lands; immigrated here because of the treatment by the muslim environment. They now say, we are not Muslim…. They all say “will never go back” to their homelands….
      Their experiences are much like the communist survivors stories.
      No difference structurally and causationally or the planned “end game” between Marxists and Islam.

      Now I understand why the progressives view Judeo-Christians as an enemy and
      not the Muslims….

  4. utah – In the most sincere manner I can offer, get over buggerthat, we all have. greg’s posts are in no way comparable to the daily tripe usually served up by bugger.

    “I once considered you a bright man – no more. I’m ashamed that I even thought that.

    I have been nothing but deferential to you but I will do so no more. You have embarrassed yourself and done significant damage to any credibility that you had. You have sadly revealed your self to be just another emotion driven, screaming and shrieking harpy, bound by a reactionary blood oath to liberalism – well, its not even really liberalism – it is some form of anti-realism…maybe we should call it Disneyism.

    You lost any right to assume any moral authority on the subject the second you typed the words “final solution”.

    Nothing can be further from the truth, and the sad part is you know it. You lowered yourself to bugger’s level.

    • Please explain to me just what part of that compares to buggerthat…and just what I was supposed to get from a post directed to me by name and alleging things 1) that I never said and 2) that I share a basic alliance with Nazi ideology.

      Just exactly how was I supposed to take it?

      • Uh, perhaps greg’s post was in response to you directing a post at him by name, and alleging things that he hasn’t said – just maybe;

        “This is a list for melfamy to chew on as he excuses Islam and blames America for all the ills of the Islamic world.”

        When you stoop to personal attacks, you stoop to booger’s level. If you (and black) want to sit around and agree with each other, slap each other on the back, and tell each other how right you are while occasionally being entertained by kell’s sexual innuendos, double entendres, and sometimes outright explictness (sorry kells), with input from texas and sometimes thatmrguy, while doing your level best to stomp out and browbeat into the ground anyone one who disagrees with you, so be it. Just don’t get pissed when someone stomps back.

        • FC,

          The issue is not personal attack, it is the stubborn refusal to accept REALITY when it has been PROVEN TO BE REALITY!

          In this case, Islam HAS been shown to COMMAND that Muslims wage Jihad until EVERYONE converts or is killed.

          There is NO equivalent command in any of the other major religions.

          For this reason, ANY attempt to equate people who have abused Christianity to commit atrocities to those of Muslims doing the same thing IS FALSE! It is a fallacy of equivocation: they are not equal.

          ANY attempt to claim that anyone trying to explain this is attacking every individual Muslim IS FALSE! That is the fallacy of equivocation: they are not equal.

          Therefore, ALL of these idiotic, PC-driven attempts to argue ANYTHING to the contrary are IRRATIONAL!

          That is what is driving my aggravation over this issue. It aggravates me because it threatens the survival of this nation. Islam IS NOT compatible with the American ideal — unless you agree with the Progressive notion of what America is. In that case, YOU don’t agree with the American ideal of individual rights and liberty.

          Pound your chest, raise your voice, point your finger and make all the self-righteous assertions you want, none of it will change THE FACT that EVERYTHING I have been saying about this issue is true and based STRICTLY IN THE ESTABLISHED PRINCIPLES OF SOUND REASONING!

          • You always preface your posts with “this is not a personal attack”, but it invariably seems to come across that way. Is it a personal attack when it comes from melfamy, but not from utah? Perhaps I don’t agree with your perception of what the “American ideal of individual rights and liberty” is. That is my right as an American. It doesn’t make me ignorant, blind, obtuse, or any of the other descriptives you usually choose to use in a response. John Burch had a decidedly different view of individual rights and liberties, as did King George III, as did the colonists, as does Barry Obama. Americans thrive on differences of opinions. If we were all of the same opinion here, there would be no need for this blog, for 2 political parties, or for different flavors of ice cream.

            • FC,

              It isn’t personal. When I get drug down into ad hominem, the whole world realizes it. Think back. You should remember how some of my exchanges with Rezz went south. You should also be able to realize the difference between them and the way I usually write. I go after ideas and methodology – seldom people. This is because I actually care about my methodology (i.e. reasoning), and I try to stay away from the obvious fallacies such as ad hominem and straw man because they are too easily used to undermine anyone who uses them.

              As for the recent posts toward G, I initially felt inclined to defend him. It wasn’t until after I read the post Utah reacted to that I understood Utah’s ire. G does try to connect things that are not related and then use them as an implied attack against other people’s positions. Utah took it as personal, I took at as a lazy assault on my logic. I actually like and have some respect for G, so – in my world – getting upset with him for using lazy logic is not an insult.

              As for whether or not you agree with the American ideal. If you do not agree with individual rights and liberty and the ability to make your own way in the world without having the govt. place a claim against you for the benefit of others, then you do not agree with the American ideal – pure and simple. Our founders defined something that has a clear meaning, and if you disagree, that is your right as a U.S. CITIZEN – but it is equivocation to claim to be an American who disagrees with what it means to be American. Trying to change the definition of an established concept to suit your purposes is fallacious. This is a matter of factual statement, not ‘opinion.’ That you fail to see and understand this is at the heart of what is causing Utah to go off and why I use the term ignorance. That you refuse to learn when it is explained is why I use the term willful ignorance. And yes, telling me you reject what I am saying when I am using the terms properly and apply the logic correctly DOES make you those things – BY DEFINITION! If you don’t like it, change.

              Yes, others have different views of rights and liberties, but that is NOT what I am and have been pointing to. The founders defined the AMERICAN VIEW through the Declaration, Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers and Constitution. THIS ESTABLISHED THE AMERICAN DEFINITION! If you hold a different view, then you are free to do so, but not to claim you hold the ‘American view.” You cannot do that without committing equivocation.

              And America actually thrived because the Colonists and early Americans AGREED ON THE CORE PRINCIPLES! This lunacy of ‘diversity’ is a Progressive LIE! This nation was called a melting pot for a reason. What we have now is deliberate balkanization, and the effects of such intentional destruction are well known because we have a solid historic record that testifies to them.

              • “BY DEFINITION! If you don’t like it, change.” Sorry my friend, but I won’t be changing because you and I have a difference of opinion. Kudos to you for believing you are right and sticking to your position, but that doesn’t mean you’re right and I wrong. It simply means we disagree.

                • How does one disagree about a definition and make a still make any claim to rationality? Yes, yes, we can argue over how to word the definition, but the idea, the concept being defined is an objective fact. It is not open to many interpretations. For example:

                  How do we argue over the color black?

                  But I am no fool, nor in denial of reality. I am well aware that there are people who will argue over what is or isn’t black, even while standing in a sealed room that is totally devoid of even a single proton of light. And this is why Utah objects to postmodernism. The people who argue that way do so from a position of postmodern thinking and that path leads to the destruction of society.

                  There is no other ends but destruction when we can’t even agree on what “is” – is.

              • You and Utah both need to re-read my post. I mentioned final solution in the piece, unaware at first of the negative connotation. Then it hit me, and I thought it a perfect way to end the piece. As it is written , So, did somebody mention final solution? Why yes, it was me. And who took offense? Those who consciences are not completely clear.

                • G,

                  You ‘almost’ had me willing to grant you the benefit of the doubt and re-read you piece…right up to the point you pulled that ‘false dilemma’ BS. At that point, you re-affirmed Utah’s and my take on your real intentions: it was meant as ad hominem and it is straw man.

                  No need to re-read a fatally flawed argument.

                • B, you have no earthly idea what you are talking about,and your arguments are so fallacious, so poorly documented, I am begiining to think that your professors passed you just to get rid of your know-it-all self.

              • You are fooling only yourself if you don’t think your comments to Melfamy aren’t personal. It doesn’t matter how you word it, you are mad because you can’t convince him to believe the same way you do. You are convinced that everything you write is the absolute truth and the only way to look at the argument. Anyone else that disagrees is a total moron and not worthy of your time, except that if it weren’t for those who disagree with you this would be a pretty boring blog. You need to be thankful for them for keeping it interesting. I’m not getting into this disagreement (the important people here know how I feel), but it really kind of bothered me to see you say that you weren’t getting personal with Melfamy.

    • kells – It was not (and is not ever) my intent to hurt anyone’s feelings, period. You can post some of the most insightful, intelligent, and entertaining posts on the RNL that I read here, as does melfamy, utah, and yes, even b3a. Unfortunately, you can, in the same post two sentences later, completely lose that train of thought and drift off into something that is not even pertinent to the thread. Sometimes, being as old as I am, it is difficult for me to keep up. I sincerely apologize for hurting your feelings.

      • Unfortunately, you can, in the same post two sentences later, completely lose that train of thought and drift off into something that is not even pertinent to the thread. Sometimes, being as old as I am, it is difficult for me to keep up.

        OK, so maybe he says it with more honey on top but… <— what he said 🙂

      • Your words are very kind and generous. I thank you. Mr. Kells says I am too emotional….

        I know you cannot be as old as daddy; he was born in ’32. Fortunately, he understands our tangents. (I refer to my family here; I have three sisters and mom,) and yes; we go off on tangents to which daddy has adjusted….. 🙂

  5. Kells, I don’t see your comments as Bimbo comments, I have a different take on them. … (But I like Bimbos around as long they are purring.)

    B3A & M: I agree with B, “they” are evil. I have lots of other adjectives, but won’t sully the blog with my G– fearing, America and family loving, rugged individualistic ways…. “We” have been saving the World since America came into being, and we will keep doing our duty….

  6. Kells,
    We in the West view religion as something different than culture and government. We are raised, with intellectual concepts that do not exist anywhere else in the world. Because of our liberties and freedoms, we separate religion and faith, from governmental and social institutions. Live and let live. Help others in need (not forced help), etc. For goodness sake, America is the ONLY nation in the world to fight for the freedom and liberties of foreign peoples, and not take their resources once we conquered the enemy. Only enough land to bury our DEAD patriots.

    ISLAM as I see it, is intertwined with her culture and her governmental and social institutions. They are one and the same. They are not taught to separate these concepts, according to Dr. Rhodes, they don’t have the words, language, symbolism in their vocabulary. Why, because it isn’t in their imagination (until they come to America and open their mind). Islam views their world as a collective, everyone is an “ant, working to take care of the queen”. Individuals chasing their own dreams who agree to leave others alone, and then work together for a common cause is blasphemy…if they question their “leaders”, the consequences are life changing or life ending. Those that come to America and truly assimilate, open their minds and learn our “new language”, and when they learn the language of “liberty and freedom”, they realize that Islam is the antithesis to being an American. They never look back once they understand liberty and freedom. Islam, like communism, must stamp out all independant thought. Convert, submit, or die…. Because to have that “spark” of liberty, around the tinder box of the collective, is just too dangerous for their regimes and those in power….

    B & M, anything to add?

  7. And you don’t believe that the U.S. government is trying to “stamp out all independent thought”? Do you honestly believe, there Tex, that Native Americans haven’t blended their lores and old ways into the Christianity that (some) practice today? You’re saying that American Muslims must give up all vestiges of Islam to be a part of our great country? Why is Spanish (in various forms) fast becoming America’s “other” language? Have Latinos given up all vestiges of their culture? After all, they have surpassed black Americans in population. Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone was like you (or me, or black, utah, kells, melfamy)?

    • The progressives in our American Government… have been trying for nearly a century to stamp out all independent thought….

    • This is so damn simple, I can’t believe anyone would have to explain it to any of us here on the RNL. When a person immigrates to America, they want a better life for themselves and their families. BUT they are supposed to assimulate into our American culture and become Americans. I’m not saying that they have to give up certain aspects of their culture, but trying to bring negative parts of their cultures to America isn’t going to work and we don’t and shouldn’t have to put up with it.

      Look at some of the larger populations of Muslims in American cities who want to implement Sharia law into our court system. F#@k that…if they want Sharia law, then they should go back to the hell holes they came from. This is America and we don’t play that “stuff.”

  8. Since before our nation was founded, America has been the “escape valve” for the rest of the world. The rest of the world’s best and brightest have literally died to get here. WHY ? Freedom, liberty, OPPORTUNITY. These concepts pre-exist Government. These concepts cannot be created by Government. These things can only be stamped out by Government.

    Americans dream, create, take chances. We fight wars for the freedom of others. We dream we can go to the moon. We spend our treasure giving medicine and food to people who would just as soon blow themselves up among us. We create vaccines, medicines. Save lives in Caves. We just know, if others finally catch the spark, they will be forever with us.

    Americans don’t mull jealously over their neighbor saying, “He’s got more than I do. It’s because he “won in the lottery of life”. That’s not FAIR. So I’ll get together with my friends and we will take more of what he/she earns and split up the spoils among our group….Americans don’t say, because I’m a member of a “certain group” I should get moved to the front of the line. Americans say, just give me an even playing field, and I’ll show you my worth.

    There is no escape valve for America. there is no place to go, this is it boys and girls. It’s time for America again.

      • I have had enough. The Progressives/ liberals/ democrats are a bunch of no back boned (pick your perjorative). They sneak around your back and start rumors, don’t fight with honor. Because it is the end result, not how you get there for them…

        Stand up straight and look someone in the eye tell em’ what you really believe. Then put your own blood, sweat, and tears into it. Oh no, he must be right wing Christian radical……. Give me a F’ing break.

  9. Pingback: Attacks On The US Consititution: Disgusting Hypocritical Speech On Public Display At The UN | The Rio Norte Line

  10. Pingback: Debating The RNL Imam | The Rio Norte Line

Talk Amongst Yourselves:

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.