You Want “Proof?’ Here’s Your Stinkin’ Proof!

I posted something that I thought might add something constructive by offering a possible solution to the problems associated with the foundational teachings of Islam.  I found what I thought was a practical, non-violent suggestion as to a possible solution and posted it as an answer to Melfamy’s question “So what do we do?”  Then I saw his ridiculous post about Rape (Greg, that is called straw man and false analogy, and I have properly cited both as accusations of fallacious reasoning against your last post.  That was a pitiful attempt.)

 

The issue is that the teachings, the law, the very meaning of how Islam is to be practiced ACCORDING TO ALLAH AS RECITED BY HIS PROPHET MUHAMMAD (as in, THE HIGHEST ISLAMIC AUTHORITY), Islam is a religion of violence that COMMAND its followers to fight non-believers until they either declare there is no god but Allah – or they are killed by Muslim swords.  THIS IS THE ISSUE!!!

 

Proof (Islamic sources cited by translator or Surrah):

 

Ishaq:576 “Allah and Muhammad humiliated every coward and made our religion victorious. We were glorified and destroyed them all. By what our Apostle recites from the Book and by our swift horses, I liked the punishment the infidels received. Killing them was sweeter than drink. We galloped among them panting for the spoil. With our loud-voiced army, the Apostle’s squadron advanced into the fray.”

 

Tabari IX:69 “Arabs were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us.”

 

Muslim:C20B1N4597 “The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: ‘There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.'”

 

Qur’an 61:4 “Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause.”

 

Ishaq:300 “I am fighting in Allah’s service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah’s war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good.”

 

Bukhari:V4B52N63 “A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said, ‘Allah’s Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?’ The Prophet said, ‘Embrace Islam first and then fight.’ So he embraced Islam and was martyred. Allah’s Apostle said, ‘A Little work, but a great reward.'”

 

Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'”

 

Qur’an 47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”

 

Ishaq:315 “It was so criminal, men could hardly imagine it. Muhammad was ennobled because of the bloody fighting. I swear we shall never lack soldiers nor army leaders. Driving before us infidels until we subdue them with a halter above their noses and a branding iron. We will drive them to the ends of the earth. We will pursue them on horse and on foot. We will never deviate from fighting in our cause. Any people that disobey Muhammad will pay for it. If you do not surrender to Islam, then you will live to regret it. You will be shamed in Hell, forced to wear a garment of molten pitch forever!”

 

Ishaq:208 “When Allah gave permission to his Apostle to fight, the second Aqaba contained conditions involving war which were not in the first act of submission. Now we bound ourselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle. He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances.”

 

Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.'” Islam gives Muslims a license to lie and kill.

 

We pick up the story on page 94 of the History of al-Tabari, [abbreviated account] Tabari VII:94 “Ashraf suspected no evil when Maslama cried, ‘Smite the enemy of Allah!’ So they smote him, and their swords clashed over him. Maslama said, ‘I remembered my dagger and I seized it. I thrust it into the lower part of his body. I bore down upon it until I reached his genitals. Allah’s enemy fell to the ground.'”

 

Ishaq revealed this in the Sira, or biography, of Muhammad: Ishaq:368 “We carried his head back to Muhammad during the night, saluted the Prophet as he stood praying, and cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been slain, and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.'”

 

Ishaq:368 “Ashraf’s body was left prostrate. After his fall, all of the Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly to his home by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his demise with deviousness. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.” Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.'”

 

Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!'”

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Soon thereafter, Muhammad ordered Muslims to assassinate Sallam. Tabari, Islam’s earliest historian, explains: Tabari VII:101 “They asked the Prophet for permission to kill Sallam. He granted it.” Tabari VII:99 “When they got to Khaybar they went to Sallam’s house by night, having locked every door in the settlement on the inhabitants. He was in an upper chamber. His wife came out and asked who we were. We told her that we were Arabs in search of supplies. She told us that her husband was in bed. We entered and bolted his door. His wife shrieked and warned him of us, so we ran at him with our swords as he lay on his bed. When we had smitten him Abdallah bore down his sword into his belly until it went right through him. ‘By the God of the Jews, he is dead!’ Never have I heard sweeter words than those. We returned to Allah’s Apostle and told him that we had killed his enemy. We disputed before him as to who had killed him, each of us laying claim to the deed. Muhammad demanded to see our swords and when he looked at them he said, ‘It is the sword of Abdallah that killed him; I can see traces of food on it.'”

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Looking to rob a Jewish community for a second time, Muhammad had one of his militants torture an innocent man. The tale is recounted by Ishaq and Tabari. Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.” Bukhari:V4B54N487 “The Prophet said, ‘The Hell Fire is 69 times hotter than ordinary worldly fires.’ So someone said, ‘Allah’s Apostle, wouldn’t this ordinary fire have been sufficient to torture non-Muslims?'”

 

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I can keep going.  Greg, YOU tell me how much more of this you need to convince you that THIS is what Islam teaches is the proper way, the way of Muhammad – the ‘perfect’ man and Muslim???  I can produce it because these are just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.  I’ve been telling you to read these stinking books so you can see this for yourself, but you’re so sure you know things you don’t know and that aren’t so you don’t even know what you don’t know.

 

Oh, and if you are going to try to feed me some more  Tu Quoque BS by trying to compare Islam to the Bible, you go find me EXACT comparisons, find Bible scripture that uses these words to describe what God commanded.  I have had it over my eyeballs with your willful ignorance.  Dude, you wouldn’t know the rules of logic and formal reasoning if they smacked you in the face: because they have – MANY TIMES!  And I have yet to see you realize it ONCE!

 

Then understand that THIS is why Uzoozy’s admission that Muhammad MURDERED the Jews is important: Uzoozy KNOWS that Muslims are to follow Muhammad’s example, which means THESE PASSAGES ARE ISLAM!!!

 

[go ahead, dare me – dare me to post more.  next time, I’ll post the REALLY ugly stuff – the stuff that has ZERO comparison to ANY other religion – the stuff about raping your victims and killing children in the name of Allah.  go ahead, tell me that isn’t in the Islamic LAW!]

40 thoughts on “You Want “Proof?’ Here’s Your Stinkin’ Proof!

  1. And YES! This time, I am bloody damned well pissed – off! Melfamy telling Utah he doesn’t understand logic is like a rock telling water it doesn’t understand wet.

    Joi, THAT is a personal attack.

    • Right, avoid the fact of my quite valid analogy under the guise of false indignation, a typical right-wing trick.

      Now that I’ve said that, I know the chances of you showing me a verse from the Quran that promotes the rape of unbelievers is quite slim.

      Your God was certainly on the side of Joshua when he killed every man. woman, and child in Jericho, except for the People in the house of Rahab, who betrayed her own people. Nice role model, Lord, sorry I don’t have a daughter to throw to mob of people less righteous than I.

    • Black, I’m not going to get into this whole muslim debate because there are valid points on both sides. But I will say (again) that there is no reason for any of the debate to get personal. I don’t understand why you can’t just accept that, on this point, you and Mel are simply never going to agree. It’s not about being right or wrong. I know you see it that way, but it’s things are not as black and white as that. Peace!

  2. Reading Allah’s orders out of the Qur’an’s 8th surah, imams preach: “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will kill a thousand Infidels, for they are a people devoid of understanding.” This is possible because infidels are ignorant of Islam. And you should know, the Qur’an defines “Infidels” in the 5th surah. “They are surely Infidels who say Christ, the Messiah is God.” (5:72)

    So as not to be accused of unfairly singling out a less-than-peaceful surah from the Qur’an, listen to how Allah recruits suicide bombers in the 4th surah: “Those who barter their life in this world for the next should fight in the way of Allah; whether he is killed or victorious, a glorious reward awaits.” “Urge the believers to fight…to keep back the might of the Infidels.” “Seize them and kill them wherever they are.” “Muslims who sit idle are not equal to those who fight in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has exalted those who fight for Islam.”

    The Islamic Sira proclaims: Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”

  3. Qur’an 5:51 “O believers, do not hold Jews and Christians as your allies. They are allies of one another; and anyone who makes them his friends is one of them.” Qur’an 2:10 “As for those who deny Islam…they shall be the faggots for the Fire of Hell.” Islam’s god is a spirit of an entirely different color. Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'” The Saudi imam has correctly interpreted Islam’s message. Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive.” Qur’an 33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”

  4. Ishaq’s Sira speaks of the murder of another journalist, Asma bint Marwan. She spoke critically of Muhammad, telling her tribe to be wary of him. Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said, ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'”

  5. The Qur’an begins a theme along these lines: Qur’an 38:3 “The disbelievers say, ‘This (Prophet Muhammad) is a sorcerer, a charlatan, a wizard telling lies. He has made the alihah (gods) into one Ilah (God). This is a curious and strange thing to be sure!’ Their leaders said, ‘Walk away from him…there is surely some motive behind this – something sought after – a thing he has designed against us…It is surely a forgery.'” Allah responded by threatening: Qur’an 38:8 “Nay, but they are in doubt about My Reminder (this Qur’an). Nay, but they have not tasted (My) Torment yet! They will be one more army vanquished among the many routed hordes…. They rejected my Messengers so My Torment is justified.” This theme is played out nearly four hundred times. Qur’an 74:21 “Again, woe to them; may they be cursed for how they plotted. They looked around, frowned, and scowled with displeasure. Then they turned back and were haughty with pride. They said, ‘This is nothing but magical enchantment, derived and narrated from others. This is nothing but the words of a mortal man!'”

    The Qur’an’s most repetitive theme – one detailed no less than one-thousand times – is a derivative of this rejection. Allah threatens all who deny Muhammad and Islam: Qur’an 85:10 “Those who try or tempt the believers will have the penalty of Hell. They will have the doom of the burning fire. Verily, the Seizure of the Lord is severe and painful…. Allah will encompass them from behind! He will punish them. Nay! This is a Glorious Qur’an.” Qur’an 13:32 “Many an Apostle have they mocked before you; but I seized them. How awful was My punishment then! …The unbelievers plot, but for them is torment in this life and a far more severe torture in Hell.” Qur’an 2:23 “If you are in doubt of what We have revealed to Our Messenger, then bring a surah like this, and call any witnesses apart from Allah. But you cannot, as indeed you cannot guard yourselves against the Hell Fire whose fuel is men and rocks, which has been prepared for the infidels.”

  6. How very odd. I copy/pasted your fallacy link to soccerdad (yes, I’m nosy,) and Tu Quoque was the word that caught my eye so I read the definition. You and your fallacies…..

    • If you mean to imply that Tu Quoque applies to me, here, OK, I’ll accept it when you quote Bible Scripture for me that COMMANDS Christians to kill non-believers, steal their property, rape their women and sell their children into slavery FOR THE GLORY OF GOD!

      Until then, my objection to Greg comparing Islam to ANY other major religion stands. And this is the issue at hand, not the red herrings people keep trying to force into the discussion to distract from the reality of this charge.

      • There you go! Flying off the handle again! All I was saying is that of all the long-ass list of fallacies on that page, Tu Quoque caught my eye and it was the only one I read. I probably have some sick connection with your brain waves which really scares the hello outta me!

  7. Let me get this straight, you pulled an article that had something to do with one of my posts, then pulled it because you did not like another post? Too bad, the one you pulled sounded intriguing, as opposed to another set of verses from a book 1300 years old. Maybe, after you get over your little tantrum, Mikey, you can put the other post up.

    • English: do you read and comprehend it?

      I pulled NOTHING you posted. I would not show that sort of disrespect toward Utah. Go back and re-read what I said – slowly. I said I pulled something I wrote in answer to a question you posed. It was a separate post that I was going to put up until I saw your recent piece of work. After reading your recent piece of work, I realized answering your question would be a colossal waste of time: you have renounced the use of reason.

  8. melfamy
    June 5, 2012 at 17:41 (Edit)

    Now that I’ve said that, I know the chances of you showing me a verse from the Quran that promotes the rape of unbelievers is quite slim.

    I can’t, huh. Kells, what would you call it if Greg killed Mr. K so he could ‘take you for his wife?” Would that be rape, or would you ‘submit’ willingly to such an act? because:

    Bukhari:V4B52N143
    V5B59N523 “When we reached Khaybar, Muhammad said that Allah had enabled him to conquer them. It was then that the beauty of Safiyah was described to him. Her husband had been killed, so Allah’s Apostle selected her for himself. He took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad where her menses were over and he took her for his wife, consummating his marriage to her, and forcing her to wear the veil.'”

    Bukhari:V5B59N524 “The Muslims said among themselves, ‘Will Safiyah be one of the Prophet’s wives or just a lady captive and one of his possessions?'”

    Ishaq:593 “From the captives of Hunayn, Allah’s Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another.”

    Ishaq:511 “When Dihyah protested, wanting to keep Safiyah for himself, the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah her two cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims.”

    There are a LOT more of these in the Hadith. Muhammad considered women and children to be spoils of war, booty, and his jihadists were allowed to do whatever they pleased with them. How is that not a holy command to rape in the name of glorifying Allah? As usual, you run off at the mouth about things you are wholly ignorant and then claim the person providing the proof you demand has failed to do so. I have not failed to make my case: you have chosen to deny reality.

    And some additional niceties commanded by Muhammad toward women:

    Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

    Muslim:B1N142 “‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.'”

    Women are domestic animals. Kells, do you remember that being anywhere in your Bible? Well it isn’t in the Qur’an, it is in the Hadith – just like I have been telling you. When you read Hadith, think “New testament.”

    • The Qur’an, frankly – is so poorly written that it is really just short of gibberish. Muslim clerics even teach Muslims that they have to “edit the grammar and punctuation” for Allah and Muhammad. So there really is no clear religion in the Qur’an.

      What happened is, after Muhammad died, his followers collected “the sayings and practices of Muhammad” from those who fought with him and knew him best: his disciples, if you will. These collections are called Hadith.

      Now, the Qur’an does say that Muhammad was the only perfect man, and his example (his sayings and practices) are what Muslims should follow. Essentially, this makes the Hadith the “instruction manual” of Islam. It provides the framework for how to practice Muhammad’s religion. This means it is a rough equivalent of the New testament to a Christian.

      And here is the problem: most Westerners do not know any of this, and Muslims are not exactly chomping at the bit to tell us about it because the Qur’an says they are not allowed to question or contradict the Hadith. So, what the people you keep trying to say are the majority do is they say the Hadith had stuff added to it after Muhammad died: stuff that Muhammad never said or did. The issue they have with this is, the Muslims who Do believe the Hadith is authentic, then feel commanded to kill those who are questioning Muhammad because the Qur’an commands it. Another issue for those who try to claim the Hadith has been corrupted is that there are sources outside Islamic scripture that tend to support a great deal of what is in the Hadith.

      On the flip side, none of the earliest Qur’ans and Hadith seem to agree very well. One of the problems with this is that the early script didn’t have vowels or punctuation. If you read the literal translation Qur’an I linked to, you will see the translator did an excellent job as some words have 3, 4 even 5 possible meanings listed. Throw 3 or 4 or 5 such words into a sentence and you can get many different meanings from one verse. Now I hear you telling me already, “See! Like I said: translation issues.” But that doesn’t really work because the commands to kill in the name of Allah and to fight the infidels are fairly clear and repeated nearly 100 times. And the infidels are clearly defined in the later Surrahs (verses) as Jews and Christians.

      Finally, you must understand that later verses in the Qur’an and sayings/practices in the Hadith wipe out the older ones, and the older ones are where you find most of the verses people cite to try and portray Islam as a religion of peace.

      Now this is the truth, and you will seldom hear a Muslim contradict the accuracy of my claims. Instead, they will play word games like Greg has been playing to try and deceive you or misdirect you. As I have shown, the Qur’an and Hadith BOTH command deception. Allah even brags about being the great deceiver and that he loves trickery.

  9. It doesn’t explain why the Muslims here are caring and sweet individuals. As much as I want folks to convert to Christianitiy, I don’t have the heart to condemn them.

    • Kells,

      I have tried and tried to tell you that I understand what you are saying. I have told you I love them and wish I could help them see the true nature of their religion. I have told you I do not condemn them, I condemn their religion and many – but not all – of their leaders. I have told you I KNOW many Muslims are no different than you are I: they just want to live peacefully. You have just refused to listen to me. You would rather call me a hater.

      Now, I have posted several of the verses now which command that Muslims lie, break treaties and deceive the infidel in the name of Allah. There are more. I have also shown you verses that command the Muslim to forsake most of Muhammad’s teachings if it is necessary to survive (the 9/11 hijackers in the bar and strip clubs). This is why I tell you that you and I can never really know for sure what they really believe. I am not saying all Muslims are like this, I am simply saying we can not really know until we have spent a long, long time with each one individually – and even then we can’t be sure. Our experiences in Viet Nam and now in the Middle East make this painfully clear. Heck, we have our own cultural examples of treachery and deceit. It is human nature. But when you add religious doctrine to that nature…

      Do you see what i have been trying to explain and have I presented enough yet to make you see why I am concerned? And do you understand why greg is wrong about this? if not, then I suppose I will never be able to get you to see it, either, but it is still real and still a threat even if you refuse to accept it.

      [g/f, I am NOT happy about this 😦 ]

  10. I know I am on over-kill now, but I want to ask you to consider how I am finding so much to post from a Qur’an that is only some 440 pages long and reads like a casual novel (i.e. is an easy and fairly quick read), and a 224 page Hadith that is very similar. Please apply reason here – PLEASE! If these passages are rare in Islamic scripture, how is it I have found so many so easily? Also, note how the passages from the Qur’an support those from the Hadith. And trust me, there are many more just like the ones I am posting:

    On Terror:

    Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.‘”

    Qur’an:8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

    Qur’an:8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

    Ishaq:326 “If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

    Tabari IX:42 “We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”

    Ishaq:326 “Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.'”

    Ishaq:510 “When the Apostle looked down on Khaybar he told his Companions, ‘O Allah, Lord of the Devils and what into terror they throw, and Lord of the winds and what they winnow, we ask Thee for the booty of this town and its people. Forward in the name of Allah.’ He used to say this of every town he raided.”

    Bukhari:V9B87N127 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.'”

    Tabari VIII:129 “After the Messenger had finished with the Khaybar Jews, Allah cast terror into the hearts of the Jews in Fadak when they received news of what Allah had brought upon Khaybar. Fadak became the exclusive property of Allah’s Messenger.”

    Qur’an:33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”

    Qur’an:59:2 “It was Allah who drove the [Jewish] People of the Book from their homes and into exile. They refused to believe and imagined that their strongholds would protect them against Allah. But Allah came at them from where they did not suspect, and filled their hearts with terror. Their homes were destroyed. So learn a lesson, O men who have eyes. This is My warning…they shall taste the torment of Fire.”

  11. Just a few on Jihad (there are a LOT of these):

    Muslim:C31B20N4645 “The Prophet said: ‘Whoever cheerfully accepts Allah as his Lord, Islam as his Religion and Muhammad as his Apostle is necessarily entitled to enter Paradise.’ Abu wondered at it and said: ‘Messenger of Allah, repeat that for me.’ He did that and said: ‘There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth.’ Abu said: ‘What is that act?’ He replied: ‘Jihad in the Way of Allah! Jihad in Allah’s Cause!'”

    Bukhari:V4B52N53 “The Prophet said, ‘Nobody who dies and finds Paradise would wish to come back to this life even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to get killed again in Allah’s Cause.'”

    Bukhari:V4B52N54 “The Prophet said, ‘Were it not for the believers who do not want me to leave them, I would certainly and always go forth in army units setting out in Allah’s Cause. I would love to be martyred in Allah’s Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred.'”

    Qur’an:33:22 “The Believers said: ‘This is what Allah and his Messenger promised us.’ It added to their faith, obedience, and submission. Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah and have gone out for Jihad (holy fighting). Some have completed their vow to extreme (and have been martyred) fighting and dying in His Cause, and some are waiting, prepared for death in battle.”

    Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.”

    Bukhari V4B52N46 “I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, ‘Allah guarantees that He will admit the Muslim fighter into Paradise if he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and booty.'”

    Ishaq:518 “Masud was one of those who found martyrdom at Khaybar. Muhammad said, ‘He has with him now his two dark-eyed virgins. When a martyr is slain, his two virgins pet him, wiping the dust from his face. They say, “May Allah throw dust on the face of the man who did this to you, and slay him who slew you!”‘”

    Tabari VIII:153
    Ishaq:533 “Abdallah Rawahah encouraged the men, saying, ‘By Allah, what you loathe is the very thing you came out to seek – martyrdom. We are not fighting the enemy with number, strength, or multitude, but we are fighting them with this religion with which Allah has honored us. So come on! Both prospects are fine: victory or martyrdom.'”

    Qur’an:9:111 “Allah has purchased the believers, their lives and their goods. For them (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise). They fight in Allah’s Cause, and slay others and are slain, they kill and are killed. It is a promise binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), and the Qur’an. And who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. It is the achievement supreme.”

    Qur’an:4:74 “Let those who fight in the Cause of Allah sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the Cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory – soon shall We give him a great reward.”

  12. A Few on Murder:

    Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”

    Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!'”

    Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”

    Ishaq:489 “Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing.”

    Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.” [remember, Muhammad said Christians were polytheists for believing in the trinity]

    Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy – a fierce slaughter – murdered, a horrible murdering.”

    Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.'”

    Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’ And he accepted Islam.”

    Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”

    Tabari VIII:178
    Ishaq:550 “Muhammad ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka’aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa’d [the Qur’an’s one and only scribe]. The reason that Allah’s Messenger ordered that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur’an Revelation. Then he apostatized [rejected Islam].”

    Tabari VIII:179
    Ishaq:550 “Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his…. His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa’id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her.”

    Ishaq:551 “Another victim was Huwayrith. He used to insult Muhammad in Mecca. Huwayrith was put to death by Ali. The Messenger ordered Miqyas’ assassination only because he had killed an Ansar who had killed his brother by mistake and then became a renegade by rejecting Islam.”

    Tabari VIII:180 “Also among those eliminated were Ikrimah bin Abu Jahl and Sarah, a slave of one of Abd Muttalib’s sons. She taunted Muhammad while he was in Mecca.”

    Ishaq:597 “When the Apostle returned to Medina after his raid on Ta’if, word spread that he had killed some of the men who had satirized and insulted him. The poets who were left spread in all directions.”

  13. So you’re saying you are wary (not condemning) of Muslims because of their religion? What about all those killings and decapitations in Mexico? I thought they were mostly Catholic. I can assure you they’re not Lutheran. I suppose my point is: Would they not be considered terrorists too?

    • I have said that the whole time, and begged you to listen to what i was ACTUALLY saying – and you and greg just kept calling me a hater.

      The killings in Mexico are mostly drug related. Crime has nothing to do with religious commandments. I think you have trouble separating these sort of things. A person is not their religion anymore than their skin color. But when their religion says you must kill to be a good Muslim, THEN you have a problem with THE RELIGION – not the person (unless they are pushing that religion, then we may have problems, but that must be handled on a case-by-case basis)

    • Well, I know this will hack off some Christians, but the Bible says we are born ‘inclined’ toward evil, and that we go astray FROM birth, so that means we are not BORN evil. If we were, I doubt Christ would have used children as the model for how we should be if we wish to enter Heaven.

      In the case of Islam, I think it is an Anti-Christ religion and it teaches hate. What Islam TEACHES is evil – not ‘necessarily’ the people who follow it.

      Do you get it?

  14. On Deception:

    Bukhari:V7B67N427 “The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.'”

    Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

    Qur’an 66:2 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”

    Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.'”

    Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.”

    Bukhari:V7B71N661 “Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle and he was bewitched so that he began to imagine doing things which in fact, he had not done.”

    Bukhari:V6B60N8 “Umar said, ‘Our best Qur’an reciter is Ubai. And in spite of this, we leave out some of his statements because Allah’s Apostle himself said, “Whatever verse or revelation We abrogate or cause to be forgotten We bring a better one.”

    Qur’an 33:11 “In that situation the Believers were sorely tried and shaken as by a tremendous shaking. And behold! The Hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ‘Allah and His Messenger promised us nothing but delusion; they have promised only to deceive us.”

    Qur’an 5:101 “Believers! Do not ask questions about things which if made plain and declared to you, may vex you, causing you trouble.”

    Qur’an 5:102 “Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account they lost their faith and became disbelievers.”

    Bukhari:V2B24N555 “I heard the Prophet say, ‘Allah hates for you for asking too many questions.'”

    Ishaq:519 “Hajjaj said to the Apostle, ‘I have money scattered among the Meccan merchants, so give me permission to go and get it.’ Having got Muhammad’s permission, he said, ‘I must tell lies.’ The Apostle said, ‘Tell them.'”

    Qur’an 5:41 “Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them.”

    Qur’an 33:21 “You have in (Muhammad) the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern of conduct for any one to follow.”

    • I just answered you. I was posting the other citations. Read the very last one:

      Qur’an 33:21 “You have in (Muhammad) the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern of conduct for any one to follow.”

      That is from the Qur’an. See, I have been telling the truth, Kells. Or does that matter anymore?

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