For James and CCF

This is a post I found most interesting from fellow commenter, Pino. He is at (He has a strange affinity for the Tar Heels.) Because James and CCF are both in the education field, I was very curious to hear their take on this. Here is sweet Pino’s post:

One Possible Reason Why Education Won’t Innovate
Two teachers in Chapel Hill, North Carolina have been reassigned to another school in the district. They haven’t lost their jobs. They haven’t had a reduction in pay.
They simply have been assigned another work location.
And finally, today, they have dropped a lawsuit brought against the Orange County Schools:

CHAPEL HILL — Two teachers say they will end their fight to stay at Chapel Hill High after a judge denied requests to delay their forced transfers to other schools.

Anne Thompson and Bert Wartski said it would not make sense to keep challenging Superintendent Thomas Forcella’s removing them from the school they’ve taught at a combined 45 years.

If you believe that schools in America are in horrible shape, and some don’t, this is a leading reason why:

Soo countered that some coworkers saw Thompson, who taught at Chapel Hill High for 26 years, and Wartski, who taught there for 19 years, as the “old guard” standing in the way of change.

Organizations require flexibility in order to meet new challenges. Systems need to be developed and implemented so that new technologies, techniques and innovations can be leveraged.

Employees entrenched with a fixation on “how things have always worked” often lead to delays in such innovations. New ideas require adaptable personalities.

Now, to be very sure, this doesn’t imply that a simple embrace of new things is more desirable than years of experience. 26 and 19 years in place is an extraordinary amount of very valuable experience. However, the need to adapt can often be more of a driving need than expertise in an obsolete method.

42 thoughts on “For James and CCF

  1. I would add that transfers within the school district are also used for punishment. Get on the wrong side of the superintendent in Jackson or Bay counties and you can (will) find yourself transferred and driving the maximum distance from your home to the furtherest school in the district.

    • True.

      We saw a similiar situation in Office Space. . .

      Milton: And I said I don’t care if they lay me off, either. Because I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then I’m–I’m quitting. I’m going to quit, and I told Dom, too, because they’ve moved my desk 4 times already this year, and I used to be over by the window and I could see the squirrels, and they were married, but then they switched from the swingline to the boston stapler, but I kept my swingline stapler because it didn’t bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the swingline stapler.

      Peter: Ok, Milton.

      Milton: And, oh, no, it’s not ok because they make me– they take my stapler, then I’ll–I’ll–I’ll– I’ll set the building on fire.

      Peter: Ok, well, that sounds great.

    • one day i will get around to posting something that i hope adds a new scandal related to testing. I know plenty of subterfuges related to hiding/concealing data, (both charters and regular schools) but don’t have access to all the docs and proof i need. I just got an internal doc from an accountabilty person today that was sent to DOE. I need to review it and possibly run it by a more knowledgable national figure for their opinion, but it looks bad.. .but complicated. . .which is also part of the problem and reason this issue is hard for people to track or get outraged about. DOE knows about cheating and other bogus score tampering and is doing nothing. I reported things multiple times and so far have been ignored.

  2. Well, CCF and I were having a similar conversation, and my thoughts are that education should be privatised.

    I remember here, locally, Bolinger getting so ticked at McCalister for transferring him and that whole lawsuit that came about. What a waste of money. Go figure….

    Augger, I believe that is one of the problems with govt. education: It becomes a collective standard for the child rather than an individual standard for the child.

    • Perhaps that is part of the conundrum, kells. How do you educate 2.5 million Florida students without having a collective standard? Who will be responsible for seeing to their education if not the government? What “standard” can privatized education use and maintain an educational goal for all students other than a collective standard? Would privatized education provide the same opportunity for poor students that it would provide for wealthier students without government oversight?

      • You let the parents pay for the child’s education. If schools were competing for folks’ money, they would aim to get the best students, and could offer scholarships to the intelligent indigent children to tout their success. Also, indigent people could volunteer at the school to pay for their child’s education. I just don’t see how one is able to homeschool for $1000. or less, but the govt. charges taxpayers double what a private education would cost per head.

        What the hello is Finland doing right?

        Just ideas floating around in my brain……

        • “I just don’t see how one is able to homeschool for $1000. or less, but the govt. charges taxpayers double what a private education would cost per head.”

          Well, let’s just start with getting the child to school. Leasing/purchasing school buses, paying for fuel, paying drivers. Then of course you have to pay teachers. After that, you have allow home schooled children the opportunity to participate in public school functions. After all, that is the law so the government school system supports that aspect of home schooled children. Where the problem lies, kells, is with the poor, as it usually does. They can’t pay the $1000 dollar figure (for 1 much less for 4 or 5 children) you refer to. The taxpayers (property owners/businesses) subsidize the poor non-tax paying (poor) children’s opportunity at education.
          Expanded entitlements under the 1962 EASA law (Lyndon Johnson) you mentioned on another post are part of the problem, but does Head Start (a federal program) and school lunch/breakfast (another federal program) really benefit anyone? How many college students have bettered themselves through Pell Grants (federal program)?

          I don’t believe a private company can afford the education system. The tax base supports it. The cost would be so prohibitive that most couldn’t afford it, therefore there would not be enough profit in for a private company to fund it.

          • Why can’t the kid walk to school?

            As far as home-schooled children, I would have them pay a fee for extra-curricular activities with the paying children; it’s only fair.

            If the poor cannot feed, clothe, house, and educate their children, why then did they have children? I know that sounds incredibly cruel, but I’m very familiar of the abuse of these handouts. I should write a post on that….

            The only “benefit” these entitlement programs that you mention procure is laziness and apathy on the part of the parent; in other words, they (the parents) become govt. drones. (Didn’t use your food stamps for eggs? No problem. Your 70-year-old neighbour on the fixed income will pay for it, so eat at school.)

            And how many college students that we put through college are out of work?

            I will concede with you on your last point, only because we are so swamped in these entitlement programs so as to not making it viable at this time for a private company to make a profit.

            • “If the poor cannot feed, clothe, house, and educate their children, why then did they have children?”

              Maybe they weren’t poor when they had them? Maybe death of a parent, divorce, catastrophic illness or even loss of job?

              “but I’m very familiar of the abuse of these handouts.”

              You may get plenty of people arguing against you about school being a “handout”.

              “Walk to school”

              You gonna walk those 10 miles with that 6 year old or do you have to be at work the same time he has to be at school? How could you do that if you were using the trolley yourself to get to work?

              If we want to talk reality, and not fantasy, school helps keep a lot of kids off the streets. Under your proposed plan, if they can’t afford it, that’s where they’ll be. Since they aren’t in school, and most not working, they’ll be poor. Some will end up burglarizing your house while you’re out working putting your taxpayer provided public school education to good use.

              It seems like you’re trying to take away one of the only things that a poor family has to help them break that cycle.

              • I know, as a six year old kid, I walked a mile and a half to and from school everyday. Like I said, this was in the sixties…maybe before your time, William…and in SoCal so things might have been different for you. A lot of kids walked to and from school back in the day.

                I’ve noticed in the communities of So Florida the last few years, a lot of kids walking to and from school, also. So walking to school can’t be detrimental, right?

                • guy – When I was 6 years old (1st grade, 1959) I walked a mile and a half to school and back every day, by myself. I believe the rule at that time was you had to live 5 miles from the school to ride the bus. If I’m not mistaken (and I very well could be on this one), in the late 60’s, likely under LBJ’s plan, the distance from the school was reduced to 2 miles from the school. As a note, in NW Florida, that was no (and still isn’t) public transportation, you were a “car rider”, a bus rider, or you walked or rode your bike.

                • “So walking to school can’t be detrimental, right?”

                  Never said it was. But you tell that to the single mother the lives on the beach, not that long ago, when their kids were in Bay High’s district. There were no high school on PCB.

                  Mile and a half? Hell, the bridge is that long. Hate to see if you lived on the west end.

                  You walked a mile and a half a day as a 6 year old? Alone?

                  • You walked a mile and a half a day as a 6 year old? Alone?

                    More or less…yes. I mean, along the way, other kids joined in the hike to school. The closer to school, the more kids. Like I said…different time, 1964.

                • I guess…if you had older kids that you picked up along the way. Older brothers and sisters, I can see that for that short distance.

                  Sixties? Yeah, a bit before my time. That may have been cool in a rural area 50 yrs ago. Probably not so cool now.

                • I walked about a mile and half to school too when i was 6 and so forth in the 70s’ early 80’s, but we also have pre-schools now and they are more necessary. My daughter started at 3 and my son just started a church run program this year at 3. However many kids live 10-20 miles from a school in rural areas. In developed areas, well we haven’t really invested in public transportation like more industrialized countries, and many places are simply too dangerous for kids to travel through on their own. Lack of bussing pretty much kills any choice for poor kids who can’t transport themselves to the farther, “better” school.

              • Sorry, Wills, but I’ve come across too many “professionals” scamming the system. You do know the rate of Medicare, Medicaid, AFDC, and IRS fraud, right? My whole idea is just that; an idea.

                I will concede with you that the world is a far more dangerous place and a 6-year-old probably shouldn’t be pullin the walks that I pulled as a child. Perhaps a parent carpool? (Or a parent walkpool?)

                Wills, I beg to differ. School will not keep kids off the streets. But video games will! That’s an idea! Then again, I think it would be far more productive to incorporate an after school ballroom dancing program into the curriculum (who doesn’t love to dance?) How to pay….fundraisers, boxtops, and donations? I suppose this is where one must think creatively. For instance, if there is a parent who can dance, could they not trade out lessons for tuition? (Doesn’t have to be ballroom.)

                And here is where I disagree with you again, sweet Wills; I don’t think my ideas take away from a poor family; I see my ideas as empowering them.

                • ” School will not keep kids off the streets”

                  Nonsense. Too many studies has proven that kids get in trouble when they have no where else to go.

                  ” I don’t think my ideas take away from a poor family”

                  You took advantage of a public school system. Why can’t they? Or are we being hypocritical here?

                • So I guess members of gangs and such are arrested for truancy?

                  I did attend public school. I would’ve been just as happy being home-schooled for a grand instead of the BS for 12 grand.

                  I tell ya, Wills, I’m just trying to think outside of the box. I know my answers aren’t perfect, they’re only an alternative to our govt’s. perfect answers.

            • “If the poor cannot feed, clothe, house, and educate their children, why then did they have children? I know that sounds incredibly cruel, but I’m very familiar of the abuse of these handouts. I should write a post on that….”

              Please don’t. That statement stands alone as it is.

              “And how many college students that we put through college are out of work?”

              And is that their fault? Yes, there are too many useless degrees being paid for by the government, I’ll give you that one.

              As an aside, do you know where the funding for Bay Haven Academy charter school comes from?

          • You mean your folks didn’t use the old…When I was your age, we used to walk ten miles to school up hill both ways through three feet of snow.?

            I was educated in SoCal back in the sixties and early seventies. We walked to and from school everyday…or took public transportation if it was raining.

        • An efficiently run socialized system that emphasizes student outcomes, not squeezing teachers like turnips perhaps? Also Scandanavian countries have much more relative wealth and affluence than the average American.

          Regardless of what Reformers try to tell you, poverty is the most reliable predictor of school success (not ethnicity although Asians tend to score higher and Hispanics tend to score lower after adjusting for poverty, perhaps due to cultural influences rather than racial ones.) and the Fins are not poor. I think they have a surplus from natural resources and a decently high tax rate that allows them to invest in themselves.

          Additionally, education level is one of the better predictors for lifetime earnings. More educated populace can earn more and are less likely to be “poor.” Educate the parents and you will require fewer resources to bring the kids up to speed.

          • Make no mistake about it, American historically has been know for its industrial manufacturing prowess. So repeal detrimental, and crippling legislation such as NFTA, and put another 45% of Americans back to work by building an environment that allows manufacturing to proliferate. Then sit back, and watch the funding dollars pour in.

            • Also the irony of your Scandinavian socialism example is that unlike the socialist agenda being modeled here, the Scandinavian model supports:

              – openness to investment and trade
              – sound property rights
              – almost no corruption in government
              – a flexible non unionized labor market
              – supports privatization, and free market principles
              – only 1/5 of citizens are receiving entitlements

              Healthcare and retirement benefits in Sweden appear good at first glance, but it comes at heavy price … taxes. Taxes are paid at 59% of income, and represents 50.5 percent of their GDP resulting in problems for the famed healthcare model.

              The EIU notes “Sweden has “a low proportion of general practitioners relative to specialists. Swedes often have to wait a long time to be treated for nonthreatening conditions.” Many Swedish patient’s end up in Thailand for their care. All is not well in Denmark either, as Danes have one of the lowest life expectancies in Western Europe. As costs have risen, standards have declined and waiting times have increased, according to the EIU.

              Almost all of the Scandinavian countries report similar situations, and all attribute the delay in care to …. and you should not be surprised because I have been warning everyone generously about this … but you will anyway ….

              Low amount of participating general practice and specialty physicians.

      • We do have nifty drones and laser guided bombs. The interent was started as a government project. We have a lot of nice federal parks. No one has more junk roaming about on Mars than us. . . Eisenhower built a nice federal highway system that vastly improved interstate commerce. . .

        • Yes, yes, I forgot the good stuff. I happened to purchase one of those little dragonfly spy drones, so no need to tell me what you’re wearing….I already know. I must say that I would’ve preferred the red shirt over the blue…..and why bother with boxers or briefs? (Less is always more.)

    • In Florida, the concentration is on your FCAT model. I am pretty sure the teachers do their damnedest to teach that subject thoroughly.

  3. These teachers were probably attempting to “teach” their students to “stay critical” of the “indoctrination” occurring in “our” schools.

    • I believe these teachers are trying desperately to have their class pass the FCAT because with the new Race to the Top contest, their jobs may now be in jeopardy. (In a sense.) FL is a participant in this federal program, er, handout. So if your child cannot tell you that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, it is of no matter for it is not on the FCAT. And there you have it. Silly, silly program. And good teachers are the ones paying the price.

  4. It’s a better direction to head, but probably not the entire solution. Regulated capitalism combined with a strong education and health system will help erase many of our budget ills related to poverty and disease.

    In the US waits can be not just long, but forever, as people just don’t have the money to see a specialist and specialists won’t take indigent patients without insurance. And I’ve heard Thailand can be a blast. . . i saw this movie lately with these guys. . .

    • I do not understand why you would want to regulate the capitalist who is making money rather than the govt. who is ignorantly spending it.

      I will concede that education as well as the health care system should be reformed; I just believe they’re taking the wrong steps in doing so.

      Oh, and FL, of course I know who pays for the charter academies; the tooth fairy.

  5. I never said government should be allowed to spend in an unregulated or ignorant manner. All governments require taxes and spending. Unregulated banks have caused, and will continue to cause, great economic chaos and governments to collapse. Reforming or perhaps I should say “forming” should be an ongoing process. We should never be content that we’ve gotten it right, but just “doing a bunch of stuff” and throwing money to anyone with a hand out because what we have isn’t working, and not even monitoring or testing the effectiveness, is a guaranteed way to waste a lot of money and time. That’s one strategy that works every time.

  6. You let the parents pay for the child’s education.

    I’m pretty libertarian, but I do support the levying taxes on the public to pay for the education of children. I support this because:

    1. Children are not free actors in the free market
    2. Thousands of children are born to democrats everyday. YOU can do something!

    If the poor cannot feed, clothe, house, and educate their children, why then did they have children?

    I was in college. I wanted a pet dog. So I bought one. But I couldn’t afford to feed it, hell, I couldn’t afford to feed ME. I let a very nice family adopt her.

    Now, I’m making a very nice living, my wife and I are solidly in the top quintile. I don’t think that I can afford another child.

    I didn’t keep the dog and I don’t expect to have another child.

    I think the question should be asked…were these teachers good at their jobs?

    If we would only ask that question more often and more seriously.

    By the way guys, I’m open 7×24, sheesh! 😉

    • 2. Thousands of children are born to democrats everyday. YOU can do something!

      Okay. For that alone I am willing to be taxed. :::laughing:::

      Sweet baby, Pino, I hope you are not too disappointed with my intro to your post. Ooh! I should’ve included a link to your site! I shall make it up to you! Nudie pics tomorrow! 😉

Talk Amongst Yourselves:

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.