OK, rather than take pot shots at each other in the commentary of a thread that is not directly related to the topic at hand, let’s just face this head-on in a thread dedicated to the issue.
The topic at hand is the existence of “abrogation” in the Islamic religion. Abrogation is the understanding that the revelations that came later in Muhammad’s life supersede or cancel out those that came before. Melfamy has challenged me, claiming that I am deliberately misleading RNL readers. His source is that Muslim clerics have disagreed as to how abrogation works and what verses were abrogated. He has linked to various sources where this issue is discussed between these clerics.
I would like to first point out that this is one of the main contentions between myself and those who claim I am bashing Islam and ignoring what they see as similar or parallel passages in the Bible. They like to point to the Bible and say that men have used the Bible to justify atrocity since Christianity began. They then claim that the “radical” Muslims are doing the same thing: perverting Islam.
Now, here’s the difference. In the past, when people used the Bible to justify atrocity, they had to ignore major passages of scripture. Had they taken the entire Bible as a whole, they could NEVER have claimed that the Bible supported their actions because the Bible does not teach murder or world domination. HOWEVER, if we look to the Qur’an as a whole, it DOES teach murder, subjugation and world domination. Claims that this is “open to interpretation” are NOT in accord with Muhammad’s law and the Qur’an.
Now, to support my assertions, I will do something Melfamy will not because he cannot do. Instead of going to an outside source, I will go straight to Muhammad and the Qur’an.
The establishment of abrogation by Muhammad (Qur’an 2:106 – from a collection of 5 authorative translations – as in, these are Muslims translating the Qur’an)
AA When We cancel a message (sent to an earlier prophet) or throw it into
oblivion, We replace it with one better or one similar. Do you not know that
God has power over all things?
NQ Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We
bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allâh is able to do all
PK Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be
forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou
not that Allah is Able to do all things?
SH Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring
one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all
YU None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We
Now that we have established that abrogation IS part of the Qur’an, and therefore part of Islamic law, let’s look at what the Qur’an says about obeying Muhammad (Qur’an 4:80):
AA He who obeys the Apostle obeys God; and if some turn away (remember) We
have not sent you as warden over them.
NQ He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allâh,
but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a
watcher over them.
PK Whoso obeyeth the messenger hath obeyed Allah, and whoso turneth away:
We have not sent thee as a warder over them.
SH Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns
back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.
YU He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah: But if any turn away, We have not
sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).
And, in the very next verse, Muhammad addresses those who claim to follow and obey him, but who discuss changes to what he says after they leave his presence (Qur’an 4:81):
AA They say: “We obey;” but when they leave your company, a section of them
discuss at night other things than you had said; but God takes note of what
they discuss. So turn aside from them and trust in God; and God is sufficient
NQ They say: “We are obedient,” but when they leave you (Muhammad SAW), a
section of them spend all night in planning other than what you say. But Allâh
records their nightly (plots). So turn aside from them (do not punish them),
and put your trust in Allâh. And Allâh is Ever AllSufficient as a Disposer of
PK And they say: (It is) obedience; but when they have gone forth from thee a
party of them spend the night in planning other than what thou sayest. Allah
recordeth what they plan by night. So oppose them and put thy trust in Allah.
Allah is sufficient as Trustee.
SH And they say: Obedience. But when they go out from your presence, a party
of them decide by night upon doing otherwise than what you say; and Allah
writes down what they decide by night, therefore turn aside from them and
trust in Allah, and Allah is sufficient as a protector.
YU They have “Obedience” on their lips; but when they leave thee, a section of
them Meditate all night on things very different from what thou tellest them.
But Allah records their nightly (plots): So keep clear of them, and put thy
trust in Allah, and enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs.
Now, you will find that all the peaceful and loving passages in the Qur’an are the result of Muhammad’s earliest revelations. Later in his life, Muhammad handed down this revelation, and it has NEVER been abrogated (Qur’an 2:216):
AA Enjoined on you is fighting, and this you abhor. You may dislike a thing yet it
may be good for you; or a thing may haply please you but may be bad for
you. Only God has knowledge, and you do not know.
NQ Jihâd (holy fighting in Allâh’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though
you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and
that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allâh knows but you do not know.
PK Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen
that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a
thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.
SH Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be
that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a
thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
YU Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye
dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for
you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
Now, Muhammad also commanded Muslims to fight against non-believers until they all submit to Sharia law and live as Dhimmi and pay the jizyat (poll) tax, or kill them. Muhammad said Muslims had to fight until there is ONLY Islam. This was never abrogated.
Muhammad and the Qur’an also say that Muhammad is an excellent (i.e. THE) example of how to live a perfect and pious life. This is where the Sirah (biography of Muhammad) and the Ahadith (sayings and deeds of Muhammad, held to be divine and second only to the Qur’an) come into play. When you start reading these texts, you will see that the Muslims we call “radical” are NOT radical. They are actually following the teachings of Muhammad as laid out in the Qur’an. The reason they need the Sirah and Ahadith is because the Qur’an is an incomplete work, and is filled with errors, contradictions and – many times – absurdities. You need these other works to make Islam into a religion.
Then there is this little extra command from Muhammad. If any Muslim tries to change what he said, or they try to “interpret” the Qur’an in a way other than what Muhammad said it meant, they are considered “hypocrites.” The Qur’an says that such Muslims are not protected by the Qur’an. In many cases — specifically those where a Muslim rejects or renounces Islam — the Qur’an and Hadith sanction their murder. This is why it is very unlikely we will ever see anything in Islam like the Protestant Reformation: because it would probably get the leaders of such a movement killed.
THIS is why I place no stock in Melfamy’s objections: because they are born of ignorance and rely on half-truths and intentional deception propagated specifically for consumption by Westerners who do not know any better. But then, Melfay rejects the FACT that Islam teaches Muslims it is OK to lie to Kafir (non-Muslims).
(I can provide the necessary citations to support any of my claims upon request because I have been reading them and studying the history of Islam for about 2 years now. I make no claim to being any sort of expert, but I do claim to be more informed than most Westerners and – in many cases – most Muslims. Just as with most Christians, they do not read the Qur’an for themselves. They rely on their cleric/imam to tell them what it says and means and THAT is where you get “peaceful” Islam: from clerics/imams who ignore the actual text of the Qur’an and other Islamic scriptures such as the Ahadith and Sirah.)