A Three Hour Tour

Our erstwhile “friend” and former co-blogger, melfamy (Greg) is offering his opinion of our position on abortion as evidence that we just want to “control” everybody while crying freedom. Even though Greg is a vessel captain, in this he is more like the first mate of the Minnow, just returning from his three hour tour:

By your logic, Rhode Island (A small and petty state, more suited to your character), we should check every woman every month, just to make sure that she isn’t pregnant, then keep tabs on the pregnant women so as to ensure that they do not terminate the pregnancy on their own.

You see, most Americans see your attitude for what it is, you want freedom to do what you want, and the power to control what others do with their own bodies, you utter hypocrite.

Our little buddy, Gilligan Greg, has the same issue that all liberals have – they can’t see the root cause of a problem and therefore work on the symptom. Problems are never solved by treating symptoms.

I’ve said it before but abortion “rights” is a perfect example of the difference between the “freedom of” that classical liberals promote and the “freedom from” that “progressive” liberals want. In this case it is freedom from consequence of a physical act, the purpose of which is the biological imperative of procreation – the survival of the species.

In a perfect exposition of Nature’s God and Natural Law, the act of procreation is also something quite pleasurable to execute, being designed in such a manner to encourage more of it.

To a liberal, the purpose of sex is this pleasure, not the creation of a child but in actuality, pleasure is a symptom, a side benefit. Modern science has developed manners to alter human biology to stop this reproductive process and in this process has altered society’s view to believing that this pleasure is the number one objective and a pregnancy from the act is only a side effect, akin to getting an infection from a paper cut.

The problem is that when a promiscuous society is promoted as “reproductive freedom” even though pregnancy is a known result of sex (even the most effective form of contraception is not perfect), unplanned and unsupported pregnancies (there is not enough economic stability to support a child) are a result. In a society where there is no social stigma for either the man or the woman for an out of wedlock pregnancy, it should be no surprise that there are more of them…and rather than address the root cause of what occurs when you open the sex box and follow the assembly instructions to place tab “A” into slot “B”, liberals would prefer just to exterminate the result of the choice of two people – problem being that the product of that choice is a human being.

They understand that – that is why they strain the definition of the beginning of life to mean viability instead of at the point of conception – because if it is the former, they can tell themselves that the fetus is just a parasitic clump of cells. If the beginning of life is the latter, they must consider the reality that they are murderers. That evasive thought process is what allows liberals to say things like this:

So a 15 year-old should be forced to to have a child because of an error in judgment? That is pure evil on your part.

A fetus is just an error in judgment. Sort of like making a left turn when you should have turned right. No bother, just kill it.

Yet our somewhat morally and logic challenged friend feels compelled to classify me as evil for “controlling” the elective behavior of a 15 year old child and he is not for killing a child.

Gilligan Greg, and other libs like him, wants freedom – that much is true – but the “freedom” that they seek is some form of consequence free freedom that doesn’t exist. They want a “freedom” where a person’s actions do not matter and they are not to suffer for their choices, or for that matter, to benefit from them (remember that they also want “income equality”).

This is yet another reason that liberals foolishly deny the existence of Natural Law – even though natural law is undeniable. In the physical world, it has long been a logical basis that Newton’s Third Law of Motion, that every action is met with an opposite and equal reaction, is a constant. That “equal reaction” in sociological and cultural terms is called a “consequence”. It is as sure as dawn and just as unavoidable.

If a 15 year old isn’t mature enough to understand this, they should not be having sex in the first place and yes, a parent has every right to control the actions of a child. The real problem, Greg, is not that a 15 year old is pregnant but that they are having sex in the first place.

“Pro-choicers” can block the daylight by sitting in a dark room with the curtains drawn tightly but that does not change the fact that the sun is up outside. It is only they who are in the dark.

I’ve said before that I believe that abortion, as a true medical procedure in the case of rape, incest or health of the mother, can be morally justified but a termination for convenience – in the case that an unwanted pregnancy would “ruin a girl’s life” – cannot…and is exactly the example he is using to say anti-abortion foes are hypocrites and just want to “control people’s lives”.

I don’t want to control anyone’s life; I am actually pretty pleased that science has allowed women who do not wish to have children to have a physiological manner to prevent it but the fact remains that with every sexual encounter that results with the release of human sperm in proximity of a fertile human egg, there is a potential for the creation of life. It is a risk that every sexual congress carries. The other undeniable fact of human physiology is that the female of the species fills the biological role of carrying that human fetus for the nine month gestation period.

Such is the way of things.

While civil society has no vested interest in the act of consensual sex, it does have a responsibility to protect a human life once that life is created.

It has always seemed intellectually inconsistent to me that the liberals can argue that we cannot possibly kill a plant, a fish or a toad in the quest for true human benefit because that plant, fish or toad might hold the cure to cancer or somehow its absence alters the rotation of the planet – while simultaneously being perfectly sanguine about preventing the life of a child who could be the next Alexander Fleming, Marie Curie, Albert Einstein or Stephen Hocking.

Gee, it is almost as if a human life is worth less than a desert toad…

Quite “progressive” of them, isn’t it?

In light of these simple facts, how can asking that someone (and their partner – the male has a responsibility as well) bear the responsibility for their own choice be construed as controlling someone’s life?

58 thoughts on “A Three Hour Tour

  1. What is utterly amazing to me is the fact that the dolt would believe it is mine, and yours personal responsibility to pay for someone else’s abortion.

    I guess it fits his mold though. I can see him not wanting to pay for his daughter’s abortion….. “they want what you have, and they want you to pay for it”.

    • It is that…but in reality, abortion is just another focal point on the liberal mind believing that there can be no individual responsibility for anything, all responsibility is collective and no one is responsible for the consequences of their actions.

      • Point proven Utah:

        Greg: So a 15 year-old should be forced to to have a child because of an error in judgment? That is pure evil on your part.”

        Augger: No ding-dong. I am saying that the f*****g innocent bystander (the tax payer) should not have to pay for some other dumb-a**es error in judgement. Just what exactly is warped inside of your noodle that makes you think anyone else is responsible for her (and his) actions?

        And folks wonder why I call liberalism a mental disorder.

  2. Little Greggory and his Ilk are the Height of Hypocrisy…..

    they want to be able to tell everybody What we can and must do with our bodies as it relates to Food, smoking, excercise, now Health Care (or NOT as the IPAB determines) etc, the list is becoming virtually endless…..but they scream up and down that if you oppose late-term Abortions you are trying to “dictate” what another person does with their body.

    • @Don Ameche – It all goes back to the Hobbseian philosophy that humans are just a bunch of savage animals, incapable of personal control or restraint – self governmence. Liberals think that being allowed to rut without consequence, like pack of feral dogs, represents “freedom” – it doesn’t – it represents barbarism and anarchy. So in answer to the barbarism, the suppose that a totalitarian government is put in place do prevent individuals from judging the animalistic behavior of each other. The irony is that the greater the barbarism, the greater the necessity of control to keep society together.

      The reject morality, religion and God – the three very things that allow man to govern himself as an individual in favor of government to control the collective.

      Their view is akin to the Eloi and the Morlocks of H.G. Wells’ Time Machine where the bulk of society is to run free and carelessly engaging in all of their desires, while truly serving the purpose of being food for the Morlocks – I leave you to guess which they consider themselves.

      Hobbes was wrong, as are the contemporary “liberals”.

      • @ Utah

        “It all goes back to the Hobbseian philosophy that humans are just a bunch of savage animals, incapable of personal control or restraint – self governmence.”

        I’m not exactly sure any longer which thread it was in, but Greg has stated that he needed the government to regulate him from making poor choices.

    • @DonAmerche — it should also be noted that these very same people will demand that this woman feed her baby breast milk instead of bottle should she have the baby. So what is this really about? A woman’s rights, or their rights to dictate a woman’s rights as long as it suits their agenda?

      The War On Women … who’s really waging that war?

  3. Yes, Liberals do seem to act as Pack animals. Parroting Talking points in unison from their “Pack Leaders” in the MSM and Academic Club rooms.

    I on the other hand show great personal control and restraint…the very model of Self governance….One shot ONLY from Balvenie 21yr Port Wood…No exceptions !………It ain’t easy but someone has to step up to the plate and lead the way !!

    • Balvenie is distilled 166 miles from where I sit. in the heart of Speyside in north eastern Scotland, situated on the banks of the rivers Fiddich and Dullan at the foot of the Conval Hills in the little village of Dufftown.

  4. Since I was a young woman this has been one of the toughest issues to talk to either side about. The left will lecture about women’s right to control her own body and the right will lecture about what God thinks about abortion. Both sides are polarized in their own corners and rarely do I see any common ground between these two groups.

    Since I was raised in Catholic school I think I have a good understanding of the pro life side of this question. However, I would have to come down on the limited pro choice side. It’s not that I don’t understand the religious implications, but I also think not everyone shares the same religious beliefs. I am in favor of abortion being available to women who are 18+ and only in the first trimester, understanding that their is no 100% effective method of birth control at this time. Since it would be the woman’s choice it would also be on her dime and women who expect taxpayers to pay for their contraception/abortion are just plain selfish and immature.

    I have watched the country argue about this issue most of my life, is there any way we can agree to disagree? I will venture to say we have some really pressing problems that we need to focus on instead of re-fighting this 30 year old battle over and over.

    • @Trappedinca – I wish we could but this is more about ideology than abortion. The lines are drawn and the sides are chosen. The same people who don’t want religion in government want people who have religious convictions to accept the premise that killing a fetus is “health care”. This is nothing new, like I said this is Locke, Bastiat and Montesquieu vs. Hobbes, More, Engels and Marx.

    • Trappedinca,

      Set aside the religion for a moment and look to the foundational law of this nation. Few Americans realize America was founded by the DECLARATION — NOT the Constitution. The Constitution is just the map by which we are to protect our rights. In the Declaration, it says we are all CREATED free and with the right to life. It did not say born. Now, to be fair, at the time of the founding, they typically did not consider the unborn a person until after the quickening, when it was presumed we became souled. But this is an area where — if we have removed religion – there actually is not reason by which to judge when life begins or ends — everything becomes arbitrary to our personal desires.

      This is the problem: a society must be built on something. This one was built on natural law and natural rights according to the Lockian model, which was drawn directly from Romans in the Bible. If we stick with this founding ideal, the unborn should be considered a person and the PARENTS should willingly accept responsibility for the life they created. However, if in our lust for our own self-interest we decide to cut lose the rope that tie our society to those founding ideals, then we will be nothing more than the drifting and burned out hulk of unrealized promise that is now Europe.

  5. 2 thoughts: (Please know: I agree with Utah on incest, rape, health of mother)
    First: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html
    This current Federal Government has ZERO Constitutional AUTHORITY to say yes, no, maybe, or YOU SHALL do ANYTHING with respect to ABORTION. . . . zero . . . . (click on the link, read OUR Constitution for yourself)
    Anyone that wishes to discuss this subject with respect to the Federal Arena,
    is placing Government ABOVE Humans and G-D.
    Once you can come to grips with that, you know what you are “up against”.

    Second: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013&version=CEV;CEB
    LOVE is a gift of and from G-d. Many of you will understand this, sadly, most will never have experienced and shared this.
    Promiscuity kills the soul, slowly, but surely.
    With all the medical “science” of birth control and abortion, G-d’s gift of procreation still manages to fulfill G-d’s miracle and CREATE. Abortion is not only the death of a child, or potential child, but Abortion kills part of the soul of the parents. So again; MASTER Government is placing itself above G-d.

    ?Why are “we” having this conversation? Because Master Government must DESTROY our SOULS, our SPIRIT, in order to DEFEAT us and turn us into drones. Drones following directions, never questioning or asking “What if?” Never knowing and/or realizing G-d.

      • HockeyDad:
        Not completing the spelling is “my” personal religious way/belief of showing respect to G-d. I don’t complete the spelling in/on non-religious “blessed” “places”.

      • HD,

        He’s Jewish. They do not say the name of God out of respect. This is how we get the name Jehovah. It is a Jewish contraction based on the name Yahweh. Texas is just practicing his faith.

        • Joe,
          I feel sorry for the poor folks that “thumb down” my response to HD on why I don’t completely spell G-d. No worries, I’m praying for them too.

    • For Marxists, Human Life means nothing. That is why Marxist based Governments ALWAYS destroy millions of people. People are merely resources, or drones, to be “ordered” and used when they are “useful”. Just a resource, like oil or steel. Nothing more. Once the “drone’s” usefulness has expired, the drone may be destroyed so as not to injure the collective.

  6. To Utah–Please understand I am not trying to take any religion out of govt. I want that Christmas tree up, I want the Menorrah next to it. I want the pledge said in every school, every day, with the “under God” part left in, I want In God We Trust on all our $. My family came to America in 1628 looking for religious freedom and my great- great grandparents were with Brigham Young arriving in Utah on 10-2-1847. Today, in my own family we have Catholics, Mormons, Protestants and my husband is Jewish. I don’t want to limit religion one bit, but I do think people from different religions can and do see abortion differently and I think all of us are sincere in our beliefs. I also don’t think abortion is just healthcare, every abortion is a tragedy, but for me, I don’t feel I should make that decision for anyone outside my family. I guess do have a strong libertarian streak. I blame my ancestors for that.

    To Texas–You obviously have some very strong feelings regarding abortion and that is your right, just as it is my right not to share them.

    • Trappedinca,
      This may surprise you, but I COMPLETELY agree with you. Our backgrounds are more similar than not.
      NOT MY BUSINESS what OTHERS decide to do with regards to Abortion.
      Similarly, NOT GOVERNMENT’s BUSINESS, to Confiscate property (money) from one person to pay for someone else’s CHOICES.
      I would not FORCE my views on others, and would wish OTHERS would not force, through Government, their views upon ANY individual.
      “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” July 4, 1776

      • I agree with you completely. Unfortunately. I think we are in for some very scary times in this country. My husband and I are so certain of this we are starting to liquidate our properties in CA next summer. We are discussing a move to SC or TX. I pray daily that God will help America.

    • Understood…I was just illustrating that this is an argument older than Roe v. Wade, abortion is just a proxy fight in the war for liberty.

      • Utah is completely correct here. Abortion IS NOT about freedom and liberty. Abortion IS a proxy war for MARXISM. The “Frankfurt School” designed “Cultural Marxism”, in order to ENSLAVE America.

    • ” I don’t want to limit religion one bit, but I do think people from different religions can and do see abortion differently and I think all of us are sincere in our beliefs. I also don’t think abortion is just healthcare, every abortion is a tragedy, but for me, I don’t feel I should make that decision for anyone outside my family.”

  7. @ Kells……Pssst….MaryAnn……..You want to be MaryAnn…..
    ( Guys know this instinctively…jus’sayin.. ;- )).)

  8. @ Utah…..Way Cool. In my earlier incarnation, as a younger person, I believe I drank some of the River Fiddich….of course as a Bottled Product. Alternatiing with Laphroig……..That is until We travelled to Inverness and the Isle if Sky and I discovered Glenmorangie, Balvenie and Lagavulin….life has never been the same again ( well at least THAT part of it).

    Anyhoots, although there are othesr on my ‘dance Card’, these 3 are my “essentials”…..my take with you to a Desert Island essentials………….Perhaps even before Maryann…. :- )) .

  9. Kellsie….as Jack Nicholson said to Shirley MacClain in Terms of Endearment……You’ll have to trust me on this one little thing…..MaryAnn’s the Bomb.

      • Well, this is quite the conundrum.

        Ginger, comes across as a complete moron, but, I suspect she knows something no one else does.
        Mary Ann, the girl next door. Just good, old-fashioned, clean, wholesome fun.

        If I was on the island, it might a while for me to decide.

  10. Kells……Actually Mi Esposa is “red in the Head”… ;- )) .

    As to outfits, accessories….skirts, shirts, slacks….pumps or flats…..I’ll have to leave that to youse Gals…..you do a very good job with it as it is.

  11. @ TrappedinCa…

    I don’t know if you’ll see this or not but I wanted to reach out to you about your Plans to re-locate to TX or SC. We relocated to Tejas 20 years ago from Calif. The Taxes, the demographics and the ever increasing politics of Leftist Liberalism pushed us to the breaking point. My wife’s family were from a VERY old california line with deep roots there…..but when she got ‘in the family way’ we knew we didn’t want to bring our kids up there.

    It was the best decision we made….certainly one of the best. I encourage you and yours to continue looking….there is life after CA….GOOD life. We also had looked at SC along the Coast and inland ….Camden is a darn nice town! Somewhat close to Columbia. But whatever you decide, the sense of freedom has made all the difference for us. And we were able to raise the kids in an environment away from the destructive influence that is pervasive in urban CA.

    Finally your post above struck a cord…..Part of my family ALSO came to Utah in 1847 with BY, I am related to Heber Kimbal though I am not nor ever have been LDS. And my family were among the original incorporators of the Virginia Company in 1603,1609 and 1612…..with the first permanant resident coming in 1640. We have a bit in common in past and present pursuits…..moving to be with like-minded folks is a Good thing. Best to you and yours.

  12. How many of you knew the meaning behind each of the seven characters?

    Gilligan = gluttony

    Skipper = anger

    Professor = pride

    Mr. Howell = greed

    Ms. Howell = sloth

    Ginger = vanity

    Mary Ann = envy

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