Debating The RNL Imam

Imam Greg, aka melfamy, (Peanut Butter Be Upon Him) commented in opposition to Texas and my post here. My response got too long, so I thought it appropriate to bring it forward to a full post.Here’s our very own Imam in his own words:
So a preacher says it is our ‘manifest destiny’ to conquer North America, take the land from those who have lived here for 30000 years. Does that make us worse, equal, or better than the musselmens? Not all muslims, not all muslim nations, engaged in piracy; were the abstainers just bad muslims, or can it be that not all muslims use their religion for selfish purposes? Two of your odious examples, by the way, are composed of christians (the mob and mexican police)

As for ‘standing one’s ground’, I love my cherries, but I am not about to die in order to keep them intact. I prefer revenge, eaten cold, to having my heroism praised by friends as they walk by my embalmed self.

To which I replied:

And which “preacher” was that, Greg? Somehow I remember “Manifest Destiny” as a general theory of the 19th century that said it was the role of America to spread democracy and republican government as far as possible to free as many people as possible. Again, I seem to be able to historically prove that unlike in Islam, Christianity was a motivating factor but it was not the singular driving force. American didn’t expand from coast to coast to defend Christianity.
Can it be, once again, that we are not talking about “all Muslims” and that you want to generalize what is said so that your point seems valid? Can it be that you are falling back to old habits by, once again, claiming that something isn’t what it is because somewhere at some time, somebody else did something that you perceive as an equal?

Is what you are saying without actually expressing it is that because white Europeans came to a primitive and savage land, found multiple savage tribal civilizations that were not as culturally, socially or as technologically advanced (the “noble savage” is a myth) and those primitives were overcome by a superior (stronger) civilization, that this explains why we should just ignore a threat from people who interpret Islam as a license to kill non-believers simply because we are non-believers?

But here’s the thing. The current state of asymmetrical warfare is a situation where radicals run out and hit their enemies and then run back to hide among those Muslims who don’t want to be a part of these attacks. I’m sure that the majority of Muslims, like the majority of Christians, just want to be left the Hell alone to live their own lives but they seem unwilling or unable to deal with their own bad apples – perhaps because the Quran supports the very kind of tribal warfare that these guerrilla/terror tactics represent…that is why they stockpile weapons and explosives in mosques and hide in hospitals and orphanages.

If we want it to stop, someone has to be brave enough and strong enough to state the problem publicly and draw a line that will not be crossed. Our culture is afraid to do that. You are afraid to do that, you as much admitted that you are a coward in your own comment. You cloaked it in some noble language, but your attempt at sarcasm betrayed you:

As for ‘standing one’s ground’, I love my cherries, but I am not about to die in order to keep them intact. I prefer revenge, eaten cold, to having my heroism praised by friends as they walk by my embalmed self.

Pure condescension from a coward means nothing. Right now you are insulated from the real issues by 312 million other Americans – but Islamic theology, as with any theology or ideology, respects no borders and because it doesn’t, it will not wash up on American shores, it will grow from American soil…just like Marxism has.

There are currently 1.2 billion Muslims in the world and Muslim families in Europe are reproducing at twice the rate of Christian families. If this demographic trend continues, Europe will be a majority Islamic population by 2050. As evidenced by other tyrannies, it doesn’t take a majority of the population to control a population, all it takes is a small group of committed believers. What we are seeing today is the tip of the iceberg – these “true believers” cannot rally the larger population because the populations are not unified, but at the current trajectory of demographics, they will eventually be. By default or by design, a de facto New Caliphate will spread across South Asia, the Middle East and Europe – this isn’t a military effort, it is pure demographics, proven by objective data.

Can’t happen?

Already has. History records the expanse of the Caliphate under the Umayyads in the 7th and 8th century and the Ottoman Empire of the 16th to the 20th centuries.

History repeats.

Since the Quran is viewed by Muslims as the literal word of Allah and therefore inflexible, it makes Islam impossible to reform. There will be “true believers” who will rise to the top through force who will control the Muslim populations. Governments will not restrain them because devout Muslims recognize no earthly authority, only Allah, His prophet Muhammad and the literal word of Allah – the Quran.

Again, the appeaser says it can’t happen, that we should ignore it because it is “just a couple of jerks” – but look at the governments in the Middle East and South Asia that have been taken over by Islamists, not just Iran but Egypt, Yemen, Pakistan, and Malaysia. India and Bangladesh are fighting radical Islamists bent on taking over those countries as well. If you take a look at the archived newspapers from England in the years between WWI and WWII, it is remarkable how many people were not willing to believe that Germany was a threat to England. The same pattern has been developing here in the US since the Vietnam war.

Of course, there are infinite possibilities and no one can foretell the future – but reasonable men who have learned the lessons of history and are informed by that same history can recognize a pattern, one that has existed in every great conflict. Two opposing ideologies/theologies on a collision course, one wishing for global peace ( predominantly Judeo-Christian) and one seeking the global domination they believe is their destiny (Islam). Leaders and people throughout history have sought to avoid these conflicts thought appeasement – exactly what you propose, ignoring a potential situation is the same as appeasement – but appeasement has never worked to prevent conflagrations. Period. Appeasement has postponed them but never stopped them from happening.

The iron rule of the real world is that no matter how advanced we think we are, the world governed through the application of force. We think we are “too evolved” for war but history tells us that man has never and will never reach that level of pacifism.

It isn’t even a question of Christian vs. Islamist. The question you should be asking is this – do I want future generations to be able to live with the freedoms that I have had?

That is not possible under an Islamic state. Islam demands total subservience and obedience. All governments dominated by Islam are theocratic autocracies and the ones that have tried to remain secular (Turkey and Malaysia are examples) are being taken over by Islamist factions. Secularism is not possible under Islam.There can be no law but sharia, the law of Allah and there is no statement in the Quran that is the equivalent of when Jesus said in Chapter 12 of the book of Mark, verse 17:

“And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.”

Therefore, in the interpretation of “true” Islam, there can never be separation of church and state.

Being a strong nation creates an aura of protection for our citizens. Having traveled abroad – and in some pretty dicey areas as well – I have felt the protection of being a US citizen with a US passport. If and when a conflict occurs, will you stand on your principles and refuse the protection of the United States military or will you count on the strength of America as a shield? Somehow, I doubt the former and suspect the latter will occur. I won’t call you a coward, you admitted that of yourself.

Since your position on Islam is clearly driven by your fear and by virtue of the selfish emotion of self-preservation through putting others at risk, your opinions have no value in this debate because fear is a choice, not an outcome.

17 thoughts on “Debating The RNL Imam

  1. Since the Quran is viewed by Muslims as the literal word of Allah and therefore inflexible, it makes Islam impossible to reform. There will be “true believers” who will rise to the top through force who will control the Muslim populations. Governments will not restrain them because devout Muslims recognize no earthly authority, only Allah, His prophet Muhammad and the literal word of Allah – the Quran.


    Now, if only we could hammer it through our Imam’s head that one of the driving COMMANDS of Islam is to wage war against the unbelievers until there is only Islam, he might — MIGHT, I say — understand there is a difference between Islam and Christianity: because Christ commanded us to love one another and to live in peace, not wage war.

    Then again, probably not, because our Imam cannot distinguish between the structure of what the faith commands and the perversions taught by men seeking to bend it to their purposes…

    • The Imam called me a coward over on the original thread. Somehow, I don’t remember me being the one just hoping that if I ignore a “couple of jerks” who want to blow up innocents, that they will kill me last.

      • One who illuminates truth when surrounded by a sea of darkness filled with lies.

        The coward is the one in the sea, repeating the lies with so many others…

      • Greg’s DNA can be traced back to Europe, I’m sure. Wonder how he feels about his militant ancestors taking the land from the Neanderthals.

        Stupid ass liberal logic.

      • Since Malfamy’s Post got a second slot I figured my response deserved a second shot too.

        “There is absolutely NO anthropological evidence that ANY group has lived in North America un-chalanged for 30,000 years….none…Zero…Zip….Nada.

        The earliest actual evidence for the Injuns is in fact POSSIBLY about 9,000 BC coming across the Bering “Land-Bridge”…….Modern and ongoing DNA analysis supports this as well.

        Whereas there IS EVIDENCE of Southsea Islanders, Aborigines going back as far as you mentioned…..There is also Archeological evidence that Africans where at least in Central America and there are Skeletons in the Southwest who appear to be causcasian ….with a Date of approx.12,000 BC.

        As with all of Malfamy’s posts ….His premises are based on Falsehoods and Progressive / mohameddan polemics. Indeed his last sentence( wanting Revenge ) reads like a muslim game plan……………..It is a Perfect example of islamic Taqiyya… this case from the horses mouth.”

    • Do your Muslims ‘friends’ have the same beliefs? They are muslims after all. What should be done about them?

      • Hey Karl. Beliefs (even fucking retarded ones like yours) are protected under our Constitution. What matters asshat, is what you do with those beliefs.

        You know better too. Try … really … hard … to at least have one shred of modicum in your posts.

        Thanks, and have a nice day.

        • Actually its convenient to have an ” *^%$%^& ” like Karl to illuminate the idiocy and evil of marxist thought.

      • My Muslim friends would likely be considered apostates by the radicals – it is a historical fact that Sufi, Sunni and Shia have killed each other over interpretations of the Quran.

        In any war there are varying degrees of loyalty to the leadership – the German regular army was not as loyal to Hitler as were the Wehrmacht. Most miss this in history but desertion in the German regulars was such an issue that the Wehrmacht took to shooting German soldiers to stop it.

        I’ve never used a brush so broad as to say that “all Muslims” are enemies – but the fact remains that if Islam is used as a primary reason for an event, it is hard to divorce those who claim not to support those actions from the act if they don’t stand in opposition to it.

        • Not to correct you, boss, but the Wermacht was the regular German Army. It was also known as the Heer, but you are speaking of the same organization. The SS were mostly Party members or held sworn allegiance to Hitler, personally. And, in all cases, disloyalty and/or desertion were punishable by firing squad by direct order of Hitler, himself.

            • No worries. I posted that mostly so the Imam would understand that this area of history IS my profession, and I know it as well as I know our own nation’s history (especially since this period is what cemented us as a global super-power).


        • As an Aside .

          There is evidence that the Practice of Sufism is FAR older than even the earliest Judaic tribes coallecsing out of UR . Thus Sufi’s were absorbed very early by ” those who worship the MAN mohamedd” …. they may in fact have even been older then Zoarastrianism and where absorbed by them millenia earlier.

          • Kells, they either do not pay attention, or they are silent for fear of the “good” Muslims. I know others disagree, but the Qur’an is VERY clear about such matters. Muhammad said that people who read peace into the Qur’an ARE apostates. This is not my ‘interpretation,” it is Muhammad’s words and intent as demonstrated by his deeds. Muhammad was either the prophet of Islam or he wasn’t. If he was, then what he said as commands mean what they say. It is that simple.

  2. Islam is no different than any other form of a totalitarian form of rule. There is no freedom of the individual for all are controlled by the very few at the top.

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