Totalitarianism is “legal” because “yes, we can”?

Really? No!  I have been considering and re-considering the question: WHAT does America do about what we suspect are illegal actions by the governing entity?  After all, its “always been that way”.  Bear with me as I “throw some stuff up on the wall” and attempt to explain, opine and struggle openly on the RNL.

Historically, Americans could trust, rest easy, in peace, with the comfortable knowledge that “the laws” made or assumed were legal.  After all, for Government to do something illegal would require “concerted action” amongst far too many people and entities to actually occur.  Including the knowledge of and by “the people”.

My understanding of Utah’s argument with regards to the NSA’s exercise of Governmental Power is: The exercise of Governmental power is presumably legal until the action in question is determined illegal.

This appears to be a correct description of the position by the Government and supporters of government action.  This assertion is also upside down, inside out, and wrong.  This position can never be rebutted.  This assertion is the opposite of Montesquieu’s description:

“A thing is not just because it is law. But it must be law because it is just”

Historically, until modern times (court interpretation using the “living, breathing, document point of view) the burden of proof was upon the Government to point to their foundations, the legal grant of authority by “the people”, the Constitution, and point to the very words in the document, and quote the very language and words, which authorize the governmental action(s).   If the actions are just, then why are they secret?

To illustrate, compare the government’s “burden” with:

“Innocent until proven guilty” versus “guilty until proven innocent”

The burden is upon the Government to prove an individual committed actions which violate a law because it is impossible for someone to show they have not done something.  It is proving infinity.

Similarly, philosophically, legally, and yes, Constitutionally:  The Government, the “rulers”, must be able to trace their exercise of power to their ‘birthright’ document, and present the language which allows the specific action to take place.  And when the specific language does not exist, then the Government is required to “legally” seek permission from “the people” through Article 5 amendment.  And when that fails, the “failsafe” words and language in “the Bill of Rights” must be dealt with squarely and honestly.

Our founders created a Constitution, with the hopes of defining, restraining, and limiting governmental exercise of power.  WHY?

If one limitation is ignored, broken, transgressed, then ALL limitations on governmental actions may be ignored.  

Stated again and differently:  Congress was granted specific powers.  Government can do “these” actions we all agreed upon.  If the actions are not listed, then they were not discussed, and how could “the people” have agreed to something which did not exist?  If government needs more authority, “the people” included a process to amend and enlarge those powers, so long as the same “quorum” and vote is obtained from “the people” in the future, Constitutional amendment under article 5.

We “the people” agreed to our founding father’s creation of 3 different entities with separate duties, and required ALL 3 agree:

  1. Legislative: exclusively writes the laws.
  2. Executive: exclusively IMPLEMENT the laws written.
  3. Judicial:  exclusively ‘PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION’ and give an “up or down” determination to the law or the way in which the law is implemented.

Then our founders Constitutionalized the ultimate arbiter of Constitutionality with “the jury”.  Why?  So if the “rulers” did not control themselves, then simple Americans could reign the rulers in with the application of “reason and common sense”.

What happens when all 3 pillars of government decide to act in concert?

What is the famous quote? “Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely”

Now we have:

  1. Legislative: writes laws and allows the executive to write laws.
  2. Executive: IMPLEMENT laws written by Congress AND any laws it publishes and implements (agencies and rules and regulations).
  3. Judicial:  Draft laws by:  “interpret” the Congressional law and tell BOTH the Legislative and the Executive, what and how they can do things, (There is much more power in controlling action, than in merely prohibiting actions.)

Consider:

  • When everything is “legal”, there are no “rules”.
  • When there are no “rules”, there is no law.
  • When there is no “law”, then there is ANARCHY.
  • And when the “rulers” decide day by day what is “legal”, there is Totalitarianism.
  • Every action “the ruler” takes is legal because “I say it is legal”.

TOTALITARIANISM THROUGH ANARCHY

Are all laws written legal because those who write, implement, and re-write the laws decided to take an action and keep those actions secret?

That is “the ruler’s” basis for authority today.  The “ruler’s” foundation for legitimacy, “legality” is, no one is going to stop me because the ruler has made sure there is no “legal” way to prohibit any action the government wishes to take.

Does the fact that no governmental entity is going to stop the government action make the action “legal”?

NO !  For example: Slavery, was not legal.  Segregation, was never “legal.”

What do American’s do about the current state of affairs with the illegal actions of the Federal Government?

NEVER submit or agree to participate in an argument which can never be won.  The proposition that “every law” is legal until those who obtain power and control with that law, “restrain themselves” and say this is illegal, can never be won by the opponents of the claimed legal law.   Remember Montesquieu’s description:

“A thing is not just because it is law. But it must be law because it is just”

  • NEVER agree to “the ruler’s” assertions that illegal actions are legal until they say “oops we are illegal”
  • after all, the law would never have been written in the first place.
  • the burden is upon the government to show why their actions are legal,
  • every single law,
  • every single implementation of every single law
  • every single instance of use of power to implement every single law

The federal Government will do anything and everything to ensure it’s continued growth and control.

“The People” are entitled to ask, “show me” what your actions are, and where in your charter (the Constitution) those actions are allowed.  

When the government can keep their actions SECRET, “the People” are free to assume the government is acting illegally and “the People” are entitled under the first amendment to require the government to prove it is acting with power authorized within it’s founding charter, contract, agreement, Constitution.

We “the people”, we Americans, must educate ourselves to the legitimate and true foundations of our society.  We must educate our families, friends, neighbors, co-workers, and finally our Politicians at every single instance, place and gathering.

At every opportunity we must demand the “rulers” be held accountable to “the people”, our forefathers, and our progeny. Require the government show us in writing, within the founding authority, where the government is allowed to do whatever is at issue.

We Know and Understand you, the government, is acting illegally and we will confound you publicly, as protected by our 1st Amendment, at every opportunity.

Maybe, just maybe, when “warriors” for “the People” know “the People” will support them, more warriors for liberty will take one step forward to help and support “the People” and their Constitution.

34 thoughts on “Totalitarianism is “legal” because “yes, we can”?

  1. Powerful Post Texas !!

    What we have Today…”…The Dismantling and Eliminating of the Constitution …. one Supreme Court ruling at a time…”.

  2. “My understanding of Utah’s argument with regards to the NSA’s exercise of Governmental Power is: The exercise of Governmental power is presumably legal until the action in question is determined illegal.”

    I do not think that is Utah’s assertion, Tex. I think what he is trying to say is:

    “Utah’s argument with regards to the NSA’s exercise of Governmental Power is: The exercise of Governmental power is legal under the laws as written, until the law in question is determined illegal.”

    • Ok, Is there a difference for my hypothesis? Either way Utah has correctly identified the position of the Leviathon.
      The Borg.
      I’m not trying to “pick a new argument” or mis-characterize Utah’s assertion. Really I’m not.
      Utah’s assertion does not matter for my hypothesis.

      My point is: Government action, most especially “secret action”, in order to be legitimate, constitutional, and therfore legal, must be able to point to language in our Constitution for it’s authority to exercise said action. Not the Courts, looking from the point of view of “living breathing document” and “it doesn’t say we can’t do it, ergo, we can.”

      Remember: Montesquieu’s description: “A thing is not just because it is law. But it must be law because it is just”

    • Although you may be correct………the larger issue is that this is all Legalistic word-gaming and giving the essence of our rights over to the Lawyers to decide who has the best “interpretation” and the best Legalleeze….

      While our Rights and the entire Country gets flushed down the toilette.

      • “Distinction without a difference?”

        The distinction I made does point out a couple of diversions in the logic offered, but I am not certain that the post has big enough holes in those differences to make a debate worth our effort.

        His points are not lost on me.

        • Nor me. I just think a large part of the equation has been intentionally ignored. “The law” — at least as it is supposed to operate under OUR system — has an implied duty on the part of those servicing it. When they refuse their duty, and ignore the peoples’ attempts to use the law to correct that problem, then the “law” has forfeit its authority by breaking its end of the social contract that empowered it. The power then reverts back to its original source — the People. This is EXACTLY what Jefferson said in the Declaration. Well, the case has been made — here and by many others — that our government has not only broke its end of the contract, but usurped the law to its own, oppressive purposes.

          • “Well, the case has been made — here and by many others — that our government has not only broke its end of the contract, but usurped the law to its own, oppressive purposes.”

            You speak the common denominator that we all understand … and the reason I stated that his, yours, Utah’s …. all your points are not lost on me.

            Our differences in the angularities that still lead us to the same point are at best … semantics. We all still arrive at the same conclusion.

          • The quality of “law” will always depend on the quality of people using it. We can no more codify everything than we can exclude it.

  3. We need a nation wide impeachment trial of President Obama. If the House and Senate will not protect the Constitution then “We the People” should take on this effort.

    I don’t have a real perspective on how this could be accomplished at this time. The major difficulty I see is how conduct the vote and how do you keep the voting legitimate.

    If the outcome showed the majority of the American people voted to convict the President of Major Crimes and Misdomeanors against the Republic then at least it would be on the record we attempted peaceful means before the lid blows off this powder keg.

    You can have King George or worse or the Republic the Founder’s created.

    All this being said, we are where we are because of 1 reason. Failure of the Church and and casting God to the gutter. Remember everyone was created by God for God. Repeat after me: It’s All About God”

  4. A huge part of the Problem is WE are playing by the rules….WE are trying to follow the Law…..while THEY are breaking or ignoring the Law every day.

    This is not a level playing field! …..They are supposed to Secure and Protect the Border…By Law….but not only do they ignore it and REFUSE to follow the law…..they obstruct the very Officers and agency charged with our protection….The Border Patrol. That is ACTIVE thwarting of the Law.

    And Our Congress like Shumer and Rubio and Boehner and M. McConnell and Pelosi just laugh and spit in our Faces! Levin is right …we are Living in a Post-Constitutional America………… Our Government is Completely Lawless at this point…………Playing Proceedural Games with the “Rules” of the Senate….the “Rules” of the House…………..as if that was the whole point of our Constitution.

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  6. There is only one way to end this march to serfdom. That is for the people to vote all of the incumbents out of congress that are of a progressive mindset and take congtrol of congress back. That way, all of this either ends, or it comes to a constitutional crisis that will draw the line in the sand to show who the dictators of progressivism really are.

    • Old Vet,

      While I understand your intention, I fear that is no longer a solution. We could change ALL elected reps tomorrow but they would still enter into a system that is already operating by its own agenda. The system is EXACTLY what Wilson described and called for: administration by specialized bureaucracy. We are going to have to dismantle that system, and — since the system is extra-constitutional, itself — whatever means we use to dismantle it is most likely going to have to be outside the constitution, as well.

      • I totally disagree. If we follow your idea, we are praticing either tryanny or treason. I say we take over the system the way they did. The power of this government is still in the congress. We need candidates that will act to dismantle the system from within using the power of congress, no matter what the bureaucracy, or the white house, or the supreme court does. Pass the laws and overridde the veto. If the supreme court violates the constitution by colluding with the white house or any other group, impeach the supreme court justices. And dismantle the bureaucracy, reduce the number of agencies, go to a flat tax for everyone with no exceptions and abolish all law enforcement agencies except the FBI to serve LEO’s, the US Marshalls office, and organizations like the military CIS organs.

        • Old Vet,

          If I follow your line of reasoning, then they took over via treason, which negates any possibility of us committing treason in return as that nation to which we were obligated no longer exists. Likewise, since they took over through subversion/treason, if we do as they did, then we become what they are and are no better.

          I find it regrettable that so many have wed themselves to the law and abandoned the very foundation of that law. We have forgotten how this nation was founded, upon what ideals and principles it was founded and how a free and self-governing people use those ideals and principles to give authority to the law. This is why I take issue with the notion of artificial entities — such as the law.

          • Then you sound like to me you advocate armed rebellion. Yes, they did decieve, but they got away with it because the people voted them in and no one shined a light on the roaches to make them scatter. We have to fight this on the terms set in the constitution. Anything else allows them to remove the mask and impose martial law and then we have Marcos here in D. C.

            • Old Vet,

              I’ve said this before, so I’ll say it again: I believe we should give the example set by MLK and Gandhi a try before we turn to something for which we no longer have the moral foundation to successfully pull off. :*)

              • Well I am relatively new to RNL so I’m glad you cleared that up. I am working on a list of ideas for others to consider. Without stoopingot their level, we do need to paly this the way they have, but move faster, better, clearer, and correct at every turn.

                • Old Vet,

                  Agreed. I do not mind using their tactics — where they can be used in agreement with OUR ideals and principles. I have said we should learn from them, use Alinsky’s rules against them, demonstrate, agitate (PEACEFULLY) and cooperate (NOT “organize” in the sense they mean, but work in cooperation). But we have to get as serious as they are and start DOING it. The problem is — and I have readily admitted it — I am NOT the person who can figure out how to do that part. That is beyond my abilities and I know it.

            • We effectively DO have Marcos in Washington DC.

              The True lesson of History is that it DOES repeat…..but DOESN’T repeat exactly.

        • With the passage of the Rubio Amnesty Bill in the Senate and the Announcement By Boehener that the Congress will pass it….even before the Corker amendment was announced no less……….. We are effectively out of time for your remedy OldVet. Especially since many of the GOP Conservatives that were elected by saying they were Conservative turned out to be Liars…..Flake….Rubio…Ayotte….Hatch….Hellar McCain …and on and on the List goes.

          There is no possibility of doing anything by vote now…..that was the point of getting this passed ….unlimited Democrat voters who swear allegience to the Federal Government….not even any loyalty to any State.

          If you have a Plan on how to as you say “take over the system the way they did”…..please tell us.

          • First of all, the bill hasn’t become law yet. Second, if it does then it maybe time to contact the ACLJ(not the letters) or other law organizations to research and file for restraining orders and a suit of petition against the law. Third, contact your representatives in the house and hold their feet to the fire. It has to work through th ehouse, then the conference committee, so there is still a lot of time. Spread the word across the country the way it was over gun control and don’t be afraid of being branded a racist, or xenophobe. Now is not the time to fear words. Now is the time to speak very loudly!

            • Monday Morning…….I was up at 7AM…to start calling at 8 AM washington…….I called 42 Senators offices…..citing Section 3502 and Section 2531of the Corker Amendment….among other points….I called Both Republicans and Democrats.

              If you have read the actual bill you will see they have written it with Certain Triggers….attached to certain “Plans”. If the “Plan” for a Fence is adopted by Napalitano….that triggers Legalization of the Illegals….But AT THE FULL DISCRETION of Napolitano she (her office) can decide to NOT encat the plan….so Illegals made Legal ( whatever that means) and no Border Fence….the same trigger positions are there for More Border Agents and for more Technology……..Thus any challanged ..even up to the SC will be to no avail because this chicanery is in the Bill and thus …”LEGAL”.

              Even Rush is saying that the Political Class is basically NOT acting legally in the sense of being Representatives that protect our rights….they are acting in their own interests and All the Legal stop-gaps which we all thought were there to protect us are being COMPLELTELY ignoring.

              Rubio and others Feet HAVE been held to the Fire….he HAS been called out for lying…….and the result has been ….????

              John Boehner has already announced he WILL pass this Bill…..Bachmann and others have described the Conference Committee process….goes in as one thing comes out as another….passed by Boehner…………But you say do the same thing……….Petitioning and Reminding our Representatives isn’t working.

              With all due respect OldVet ……… We are OUT of time.

              • But they haven’t been hammered as hard on this as they were the gun control bill. That is what has to happen. You probably will see it happen on Obama’s energy initative.

                • See my other post On the Movements in Arizona to Re-call McCain ans Flake…….and the Movement in other Colorado counties to seceded from colorado.

                  There are glimmers of hopeful signs…..my assertion is that these are not NORMAL times…..and thus will require Extra-ordinary measures to remedy…………………Specifically it will require ACTIVE involvment, Organization and a Stong measure of actual PHYSICAL participation ( Marches for our Constitutional Rights ).

                  Perhaps we “mature” citizens need to awaken the Youth be example….showing what a Motivated and Organized Citizenry Can and Should Do ! ?

                  But one thing is certain ………… It is NOT Business as usual any more !!

  7. Every nation that has ended in tyranny has come to that end by way of good order. It certainly does not follow from this that peoples should scorn public peace, but neither should they be satisfied with that and nothing more. A nation that asks nothing of government but the maintenance of order is already a slave in the depths of its heart; it is a slave of its well-being, ready for the man who will put it in chains.

    Tyranny in democratic republics does not proceed in the same way, however. It ignores the body and goes straight for the soul. The master no longer says: You will think as I do or die. He says: You are free not to think as I do. You may keep your life, your property, and everything else. But from this day forth you shall be as a stranger among us. You will retain your civic privileges, but they will be of no use to you. For if you seek the votes of your fellow citizens, they will withhold them, and if you seek only their esteem, they will feign to refuse even that. You will remain among men, but you will forfeit your rights to humanity. When you approach your fellow creatures, they will shun you as one who is impure. And even those who believe in your innocence will abandon you, lest they, too, be shunned in turn. Go in peace, I will not take your life, but the life I leave you with is worse than death.”

    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. Pingback: Obama’s unconstitutional steps worse than Nixon’s; says George F. Will | The Rio Norte Line

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