I really wish I didn’t have to do this. Honestly, I don’t want to do this. But there is an abundance of ignorance and – frankly – out-right lies from the willfully ignorant among us. Their deceit and disinformation must be corrected so that those who are truly looking for the truth can better determine it for themselves. This is why I had to write this post.
The Qur’an is not like most books of scripture. It is NOT arranged chronologically. It is arranged from the longest to the shortest chapter, not from the oldest to newest revelation. Within this different arrangement of the verses in the Qur’an (Surahs), there is the principle of ‘Abrogation.” If you do not know about and understand how Abrogation works, then you can twist the Qur’an into most anything you want it to say (mostly because it is full of self-contradictions). Basically, Abrogation means that the later verses supersede the older ones. They replace them, thus erasing the older verses – yet the older verses remain in the Qur’an. This is one of the principle sources of the confusion among many Westerners and even many Muslims. This is why people can find verses (Surahs) talking about peace and forgiveness and the like and use them to claim Islam is about peace. But these verses are among the very earliest, before Muhammad was kicked out of Mecca.
These early verses of peace and forgiveness date from when Muhammad had only gathered some 150 followers after several years of “revelation.” It was not until Muhammad started raiding his neighbors and giving 80% of what a man could take to his warriors that his followers grew. Then, when Muhammad had the “revelation” that anyone who died in these raids for booty would go to paradise, his following grew even more. When you add an understanding of the culture in which Muhammad lived to this mix, you start to understand why his new religion had such an appeal. The Arabian desert was a harsh environment, and an honest living was hard to earn. But here, if you follow Muhammad, you could become wealthy and, if you died, you became even wealthier in paradise. It is not difficult to see how Muhammad could easily use this to his advantage, just as the Muslims clerics continue to do today: drawing their suicide bombers from among the impoverished poor who are without hope aside from their faith. Nothing has changed in this regard.
Now, many in Islam and out will try to tell you that my take on Abrogation is incorrect, but this is either ignorance or deception. In fact, those who make such arguments actually violate Muhammad’s command not to disobey or alter Muhammad’s commands. According to Muhammad, this makes these people what he called hypocrites, or apostates, and Muhammad commanded they be killed by the true believers. I have posted all of this in my last four posts on Islam. You can find the supporting verses from the Qur’an there.
Now, let’s address what Muhammad said about Abrogation:
Qur’an 2:106
When we cancel a Verse or throw it into oblivion, We replace it with a better one. Or: Whatever Revelation We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We substitute something better.
Qur’an 16:103
When we replace a message with another, and God knows best what he reveals, they say: You have made it up. Yet, most of them do not know.
Qur’an 13:39
God abrogates or confirms whatsoever he will, for he has with him the Book of the Books.
Qur’an 17:86
If we pleased, we could take away what we have revealed to you. Then you will not find anyone to plead for it with us.
With that, an honest reader and a true follower of Muhammad’s Islam must accept that the later verses of the Qur’an — in time, not in the book — replace those that came before. This means that war is now mandated for Muslims (as I have posted many times before). What’s more, none of this is open to change, which is why Islam can never undergo a “reformation” such as the one the Christian church underwent. Again, this is not my “opinion,” it is what Muhammad commanded:
Qur’an 5:101
Believers! Do not ask questions about things which if made plain and declared to you, may vex you, causing you trouble.
Qur’an 5:102
Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account they lost their faith and became disbelievers.
Once again, I remind you, Muhammad said those who do question or try to change his dictates are hypocrites and apostates and must be killed by the true believers.
Look, I honestly o not care what others think of me. If I did, I wouldn’t be spending so much time writing for the RNL. What drives me is an honest search for understanding – wisdom — and that starts with a search for the truth as best I can understand it. And because the truth is seldom found in hearsay, whenever possible, I go to the original source to find my information. Then I do my best to understand that original source – especially if it is speaking directly to me as the Bible and Qur’an speak to their readers. Then I make my determinations from there.
In the case of this issue, I have spent a great deal of time learning Islam as Muhammad defined it – not as others have tried to change it. This is how I know where to find the passages I need to support my posts. And all my posts are is a fair and honest witness of what Muhammad taught his followers. So, if you read my posts, all I ask is that you go to the original sources and learn for yourself. If you do that, if you actually go to Muhammad’s words, then I am sure you will come to see I have never knowingly lied to you about anything I have said about Islam. All I have been trying to do is teach those who will listen the truth about what I found, so we can better face and deal with the threat I found – the same threat Jefferson found and tried to warn us against.
The Rio Norte Line 
“This will be the last post I write about Islam (at least for a while).”
Yep, for almost 24 hours. 🙂 https://therionorteline.com/2013/07/08/tolerance-and-freedom-of-choice-under-muhammads-islam/
“Look, I honestly o not care what others think of me.”
We can tell, by how well you refuse to let those who disagree with you set your agenda. 😉
I “abrogated” my previous comments. 🙂
Even I’ll give that a thumbs up for wit.
😉
Let the Light of Truth shine on the Cock-roaches …..
Good work indeed ……… you should think about linking all of these threads…… the weight of links and quotes together is impressive.
Isn’t it all incredible ?
It’s a Doctrine like…..”Whatever I say today is more Impotanter than what I may have said Yesterday…… Or not…… Whatever…..I’ll let you know what the most truther statement is….don’t do anything till you hear from me….. or I’l kill you “.
Don,
When you start researching the actual history of events, you start to see that is EXACTLY what happened. The people would accuse Muhammad of breaking his own commands and, presto, Allah sent Muhammad a new Surah saying it is OK for Muhammad to do it. This applied especially to “booty” and “boodie” (if you know what I mean).
Yep ….. I’ve studied it for years…..Iknow exactly what you mean.
Now who else do we know that goes around changing “laws” from one year to the next, you have to buy insurance….no wait, only YOU guys do, but not until a year from now…?????
It’s not the people, but the spirit that guides them which is to blame. Where they DO deserve blame is when they have been told better and then knowingly side with that spirit. After that… Well, every knee WILL bend.
Nice exchange. 🙂
But James, do you have a rebuttal for Joe’s abrogation in the Qur’an assertion(s)?
“do you have a rebuttal”
Nope. I’m no expert on the Qur’an, figure Joe is probably about as honest and accurate about this as he is on other issues, and don’t care enough about his views to have read most of the post.
Oh McPherson … you and your Christian values. 🙂
“you and your Christian values”
This from a guy who boasts about his money, possessions and sexual adventures while devoting most of his comments to inane insults. I don’t think I’ll lose any sleep over what you consider to be “Christian values.”
Oh, I know about Christian values McPherson. And they do not evolve around the behavior you are displaying.
psst … you’re horns are showing, and I do not think your peers in the pew would look upon you fondly.
You do get my respect for being honest about your hypocritical nature though …for what it is worth. 🙂
Augger,
No, and neither does Melfamy. they are just employing their Alinsky lessons to try and shut down substantive discussion on the RNL.
Surely you’ve noticed 🙂
Oh, was there some “substantive discussion” going on somewhere on the RNL? Tell Newsweek! 😉
“Oh, was there some “substantive discussion” going on somewhere on the RNL? Tell Newsweek! “
Well, one thing is for certain … we beat out your usual sources. Otherwise, you would not be trolling here. 😉
I can wink too!
The principle of “taquiyya” is used to misrepresent or deny the principle of “abrogation”.
A principle for planning for “disasters” is to assume “worst case scenario”.
Merely look to the destruction caused by those who state their reason was “jihad” & “Allah is great” at the time they are “captured or cornered”.
Where is one example of a free open society controlled by the followers of Islam? Where? Iran? Egypt? Saudi? Pakistan? Sudan? Etc.
Israel and America have been the safety valve for all the persecuted people’s from Muslim countries to escape murder and torture.
What happens when the “Muslim brotherhood and CAIR representatives” within the American military, the state department, and DHS succeed in purging all non-Muslim “Americans”?
“What happens when the “Muslim brotherhood and CAIR representatives” within the American military, the state department, and DHS succeed in purging all non-Muslim “Americans”?”
The 4th horseman starts his ride.
They are trying to effect that purge by silencing Debate and discussion……..This is what is attempted rightr here at the RNL.
They do it by claiming any discussion of islam at all that is not a mere Praise or parroting of the MSM meme is Bashing or an example of “islamo-phobia”. That very phrase ” islamophobia” is a Media-hyped-made-up psycho-Babble term.
They do it by ridicule…… then they do it by the age-old Left / Progressive tactic of claiming anyone who disagrees with them is ….”stupid”.
“This is what is attempted rightr here at the RNL.”
Don, that’s just stupid. Two or three people disagree with the majority here, and that minority has some hope of “silencing debate and discussion”? How pitiful must the majority — who originate all the posts — be if they could really be silenced by that? Geez.
And I don’t think everyone who disagrees with me is stupid — though some of you seem to be. On the other hand, I never suggest that those who disagree with me must be evil.
I rest part of my case…
James McPherson
July 9, 2013 at 17:23 Reply
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“This is what is attempted rightr here at the RNL.”
Don, that’s just stupid.
…
“I rest part of my case…”
You should rest it all and quit while you’re behind.
We get Deerbornistan.
““What happens when the “Muslim brotherhood and CAIR representatives” within the American military, the state department, and DHS succeed in purging all non-Muslim “Americans”?”
Then pigs fly, hell freezes over, and the majority of people posting on the RNL start making sense.
Just how many Muslims do you think there are in government, anyway?
I think the numbers don’t matter as much as who the president takes advice from.
Excellent observation Kells. 🙂
Elementary.
Once again, the RNL does an excellent job in educating its readers. Great post!
Side bar: Have any of you been watching the footage from Egypt lately? Now Morsi supporters are fighting the military with slingshots.
Think there is a lesson to be learned here?
Augger,
Actually, yes, but there is a bigger story in this whole mess. Have you seen the stories the Blaze has been running on what is REALLY happening over there? I think they are the only source in the U.S. with people actually on the ground there AND showing the truth of what is happening and telling the truth about the players. Bad ju-ju
I haven’t. Haven’t checked Beck’s stuff since he started a subscription policy.
The Blaze is free. And he has to have some source of funding if he is going to continue doing what he is doing AND remain free from corporate masters.
You can Read the Quran in English here http://www.ClearQuran.com
Joe,
I agree that the best way to expose a faulty idea is with the Truth. Not with what we believe is the Truth, but what the idea, in this case the Koran (Qur’an), actually states. My copy of the Koran, Original English Translation, 1956, by N.J. Dawood, mirrors practically every word you have posted above. I originally started reading The Ali Translation, which is much more the definitive word on the compilation of the combined revealings to The Prophet by the Angel Gabriel.
Anyone interested in learning about the Koran and Islam, can really be informed by the many books of Bernard Lewis, the most informed person (in my opinion) on this subject. Bernard Lewis’s book “Islam: The Religion and The People,” is probably the best of any in publication.
Also would like to mention Fouad Ajami’s book “The Foreigner’s Gift,” for anyone who would like to try and understand what the Arab mentality is all about regarding the West.
EdwardS
EdwardS,
Thanks for the support.
As a related aside, I found a copy of a literal translation of the Qur’an. It was written by a faithful, practicing Muslim who speaks Arabic as his first language. That translation gives you a lit of all possible meanings for a word. Rather than choosing for you, it leaves you to decide. When a single verse has 3 or 4 words, each with 2, 3 or more possible meanings, what was intended tends to get lost. In fact, it shows the hopelessness of making a coherent religion from the Qur’an. This is why Muslims MUST have the Hadith (sayings and traditions of Muhammad). They are the example of how Muhammad intended his religion to be lived, and it is THERE that the blood lust and hatred is most clearly revealed.
But then, I suspect you know ALL about these issues 🙂
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