Wars and Rumors of War

If there was ever any issue that illustrates just how far our government will go to enforce its will, we saw it this week when the Bundy Ranch was surrounded by officers from several federal agencies. It also illustrates how much things have changed over the last century with respect to the perception and use of “public lands”. These actions clearly indicate that in the eyes of the federal government, these lands are not “public” at all, but belong to the government.

I don’t care that the Bundy’s supposedly owed for grazing rights, the American West had more than a century of tradition of open range before the BLM started charging fees on public lands in 1936. What I do care about is the lengths a government will go to establish a militaristic presence over some cows grazing when they can’t seem to muster that kind of motivation to protect our southern borders.

We have seen an IRS used as a club to thwart legitimate political opposition, a government so intent on dominating the individual that someone at the behest of some agency slipped a proviso in the “farm bill” to remove a statute of limitations so they could withhold tax refunds from people who were simply related to individuals that the government has deemed to owe them a debt – the same week it was reported that the State Department cannot account for over $6 billion dollars.

That proviso was so specific that it had to be done with exactly the purpose it was used for last week – that change was no accident. It was inserted and executed by some statolatrist acolytes who worship government and considers it supreme over the people.

We saw the leadership of the supposed party of small government, the GOP, sneak through a “doc fix” bill estimated to cast as much as $20 billion on a voice vote when most of the House members who would have opposed it did not even know the vote was scheduled. Since so many members were absent, this was tantamount to taxation without representation – many of our representatives never got the chance to have a voice, so by extension, neither did we.

Militarized local police forces, seemingly benign federal agencies stocking up on ammunition and weapons, restrictions on the Second Amendment, a lawless administration who callously ignores the Constitution and fears no other branch of government – it all adds up to one thing – a self-aware Leviathan poised to devour the citizenry and subsequently grind their bones under its clanking treads as it rumbles across the countryside.

Just imagine a world where a government filled with dutiful functionaries who have been stripped of common sense and devoid of judgment lumbers on with only its own rules and regulations to guide it. Think of the DMV or some other unresponsive agency that is driven by inflexible rules and then extrapolate that to the entire of the federal government…

Those who argue against corporate “personhood” better get concerned about government “personhood” because we are witness to a growing and sentient Leviathan more concerned with satiating its hunger by feeding on individuals than it is with protecting their rights.

It is Huxley’s “Brave New World”, Orwell’s “1984” and Fritz Lang’s “Metropolis” all rolled into one.

113 thoughts on “Wars and Rumors of War

  1. Pingback: Wars and Rumors of War | GulfDogs

  2. Utah, I did not think our government was supposed to own land on the scale of the present confiscation? When we were formed, how much land within the original 13 Sovereign States borders was owned by the central government? Up until the Civil War how much land within the borders of the new Sovereign States did the federal Government retain title to? I found nothing in the Constitution that would grant them the power to lay claim to this land grab of the post Civil war era. Do you know of what this land grab is based on?

    • Triper57,

      Un-constitutional (ie. illegal) progressive (American Communist) actions. The national parks were created under Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, and a self avowed Progressive.

      ps. The Feds do as they wish; read my “Constitution” posts. The person currently deemed President hasn’t personally signed all of the laws sent to him in a constitutional manner, nor has Congress continued to follow the Constitutional requirements for passing “revenue bills”.

      (update: If Congress, the President, and the Judiciary, are allowed ignore their own “Rules of Robert” (the Constitution), then all Americans are at the mercy of the whims of those in power. The “rule of law” in a nation where all men and women are created equal; destroyed by “might makes right” and special dispensations for those who buy favor with the leviathan.)

  3. Apparently, some people spout off before reading what those of us who attack artificial entities have actually said about this issue and the government. If they had done so, they would find that this person, started with the government.

  4. TWO issues about this are worth repeating….. BUT they are not the only important issues, just ones that bear highlighting.

    (1) the BLM “Officer” who said he wasn’t pleased with what he was doing…and didn’t want to be there….When asked by one of the Women supporting Bundy ‘ why he was there and what he thought he was doing ‘ the BLM Agent ( jack-boot) said… “..It’s my job !..”

    This is exactly the kind of statement made countless times by the Concentration Camp guards and the apparatchiks of the Soviet Union.

    (2) Bundy reportedly DID pay Taxes to the County of Clarke , Nevada……and rebelled against the BLM take-over and their taxing authority……………….. This is a States rights issue as it directly relates to Taxing Structure. Bundy is essentially saying he is Loyal too and recognizes the State and LOCAL authority as sovereign…..and as such is supporting the 9th and 10th Amendments.

    As such this issue highlights the ongoing attempt to concentrate power in Washington and destroy States rights and Individual rights.

  5. Here is a Megan Kelly piece on this issue everyone should see …… as stated in the Video … FOX was the ONLY network there. And the point the Film-maker mentioned about the fact that BLM M16s and M4s are NEVER trained on the Drug-Cartels using BLM land on the Border but were in abundance AGAINST American Citizens is a wake-up Call !!

    http://therightscoop.com/kelly-files-exclusive-behind-the-scenes-look-at-nevada-ranch-showdown-via-filmmaker-dennis-michael-lynch/

  6. Another VIDEO with proof of Ried’s involvement with the Chinese energy company and the plans being hatched within the BLM itself….screenshots of the Documents deleted from the BLM and later from Google’s-Cache !!!

      • For those who care about real Information instead of repeating the Gov’t line. Here is an article with link to a Court Case wherein the Fed Judge ruled that the BLM in essence was using schemes to steal a man’s ranch and water rights.

        http://www.infowars.com/federal-judge-blm-engaged-in-a-criminal-conspiracy-against-ranchers/

        And here is the second of a two-part video of Rancher Wayne Hage who describes to a “T ” the set-up tactics of the BLM so-called LEO Agents. Exact tactics used against Bundy …..ultimately to Steal his land too. Like the other 52 have had done in the last 20 years.. You only need to watch til about the 16 Min Mark to get the essence.

  7. The tortoise protection issue is bogus, as this article explains…https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/rangelands/article/viewFile/10776/10049

    it’s a long read; to sum up, the article explains that tortoises feed on cattle manure! The more cows, the merrier the tortoises!

    Which leaves the question of overgrazing, and the same article points out the reason BLM came into being, because the Bundys of the world do not care about conservation and the common good, merely their own profit. Even his fellow cattlemen in Nevada are not on his side…….

    In a statement, the association noted that Bundy’s case had been reviewed by a federal judge, and that a legal decision had been rendered to remove the cattle. The statement said that NCA “does not feel it is in our best interest to interfere in the process of adjudication in this matter, and in addition NCA believes the matter is between Mr. Bundy and the federal courts.”

    Asked about the Bundy situation, NCA president Ron Torell told ABC News, “This has gotten way out of hand.”

    Asked if other Nevada cattlemen were as angry with the federal government as Bundy, Torell said, “absolutely not.”

    It’s true, he said, that many NCA members are disgruntled at having to deal with BLM’s bureaucracy. But, he noted, 87 percent of Nevada land is public land, so cattlemen cannot survive on private land alone. “It’s important for our permitees to work with the land management agencies. We want to be good stewards of the land — to protect natural resources.”

    • Assuming that everything you just said is 100% accurate Greg, it leaves me with two questions directly for you:

      1. Do you think the Feds went overboard with their reactions?
      2. Do you think the Federal Government should be in the business of acquiring land for itself in the first place?

      • augger: I am unaware of any Constitutional provision that permits the Federal government to acquire and hold large tracts of land for anything other than the immediate use of government itself. The Constitution carefully delimits the powers of our Federal government and owning 90% of the state of Nevada is not on the enumerated list. Harry Reid’s cynical and personal interest in controlling politics and land use, as well as ownership in Nevada, is far more likely to have brought on last week’s confrontation than any legitimate Federal prerogative. The government’s actions were illegal and Harry Reid is thus far an unindicted co-conspirator, which is familiar ground for the majority leader, who has been the most corrupt politician in Washington for a long time. CDE

        • “I am unaware of any Constitutional provision that permits the Federal government to acquire and hold large tracts of land for anything other than the immediate use of government itself.”

          In this case, apparently someone with ties to Harry Reid. 🙂

        • As a late back-up comment to your points.

          Mark Steyn said on Rush’s show Thursday ….” Can we even CALL Nevada a State with 81-90% of the Land Owned by the Feds ??” It is similar in other Western States too. And if the Land is ultimately owned by the People of the US …..then WE ( the entirte population of the US) all own Nevada and it IS NOT A STATE in any meaningful definition of that term.

          Which is absurd. Nevada belongs to Nevada and the Citizens of Nevada ( minus the aliens at Area 51 of course.. :- ) ).

          What has happened with this whole issue of the Federal Government “Owning” the People’s and the States land is a clear abomination of what and how this country was founded…..I don’t care how many so-called “Laws” have been passed in how many dark rooms to bring it about.

  8. In both cases, no. Bundy made threats last year, and the BLM put off until this year the cattle removal. Again, Bubdy called for a ‘range war’. Now, maybe he was being hyperbolic, but one doesn’t take chances with one’s employees when incendiary language is used, especially by the type of people who cheer the death of BLM agents. Bundy should be in jail, but for the perverted sense of justice this country is experiencing, thanks to fools like Utah, who see this jerk, this criminal, as a decent American. He’s a fucking welfare queen, the type of corporate fed-favor-seeking whore you guys would rail against if you weren’t so anti-fed.
    And you asked the wrong question. as that is not what the BLM is doing. The land is public, Augger, yours and mine, and everybody else’s in America. It is a resource, and when left to their own devices ,some ranchers will overgraze with no thought for the future. I do not want to see fracking and open pit mining on public lands, in national parks.

    • Not surprising that our favorite Marxist would approve of authoritarian actions by an increasingly out-of-control Federal bureaucracy. The Federal government has no delineated power to own 90% of the land in Nevada, or anywhere else. In America, real estate can be owned by first use by an individual or by acquisition of the land from someone holding clear and legitimate title. The US Federal government is not George III or the Sun King. It is the servant of the American people and it has forgotten its place. CDE

      • I quit reading when you called me a marxist, as that stupid statement shows the extent of your intellectual bankruptcy. When are you people going shed the jingoism and actually discuss a subject without resorting to platitudes and the denigration of your fellow Americans?

        • “He’s a fucking welfare queen” <— is this a good example of a platitude and denigration of a fellow American? If so, should we stop reading your post at that point, and maybe miss a salient point that may have come afterwards?

          Just curious.

          • “He’s a fucking welfare queen” — just so I am clear. This is an example of a salient point, and not a platitude? You for a fact, know that your target for this statement is a “queen”, is on “welfare”, and “fucks”.

            What country does “she” rule over? Why and were does a “queen” get “welfare”, and is he fucking you personally?

            ::: sratching head :::

            Forgive me for having problems with your logic today.

        • meldamy: My apologies if I offended you by referring to you as a Marxist, as I thought that was how you referred to your own beliefs. I’m a libertarian so it does offend me in the least when people accuse me of that crime, as our friend Joe often does.

          On the substance of my observation I am confident I am correct. The Federal government’s outrageous behavior in taking and holding land in the American West has no Constitutional support and its use of military force against American citizens is criminal. My guess is that a Harry Reid real estate or mineral rights deal is behind all this, but time will be required to determine that.

          Thanks for correcting my mistake in misnaming your economic and political views, but you did embrace Marxist principles at some point, didn’t you? Warm regards, CDE

          • I have never experienced true communism, and neither has the world; at least not anything like Marx would have recognized as his vision. I think it can only work on a small scale, such as a commune like The Farm in Summerville, Tennessee.
            I am a capitalist, but am not for unrestrained capitalism, as that only leads to an oligarchic ruling class. Monopolies are bad, predatory pricing is bad, both limit the upward mobility of small businessmen, but I am unsure of how to correct such inequities. Free enterprise, a level playing field.

            • “Free enterprise, a level playing field.”

              I do not consider it free enterprise, nor a level playing field when the feds invest our tax dollars in to a specific company … such as Solyndra.

              I am sure that Solyndra’s direct competition would agree.

                • And that makes it Constitutional, yes? No?

                  I would ask you to provide the Article in the Constitution that states; “if another country invests in , then it is constitutionally lawful for the United States Federal Government to do the same … in the name of creating a level playing field.”

                  Just because a person or group of persons feel it is morally correct to do a thing, does not mean it is lawfully or constitutionally correct to do so.

                  Greg, we live by the rule of law my friend … not by the law of rulers.

                  • Greg, we live by the rule of law my friend … not by the law of rulers.

                    Augger,

                    You might want to check with Obama before you say something like that. I’m not so sure the facts will support your assertion.

                  • Augger, in case you haven’t noticed, other countries are prospering while we are cutting education budgets and failing to keep the infrasructure in tip-top shape.
                    We had better find a way to jump start new technologies, encourage investment in America rather than send money overseas, and The Constitution provides the means to do it, The General Welfare Clause, gives Congress the wiggle room to do those things. I know what B and Utah think , that the meaning of welfare has changed, and somehow that ties our hands. Guess what? The meaning of arms has changed as well, son that argument gets flushed, unless one wants to keep and bear blunderbusses.
                    Jefferson was against the dead controlling the living, he would not hesitate to do the right thing, why are you guys so sanguine about our decline? We can’t invade everyone!

                    • “Augger, in case you haven’t noticed, other countries are prospering while we are cutting education budgets and failing to keep the infrasructure in tip-top shape.”

                      Meanwhile back on the farm, incase you haven’t noticed, this administration is helping other countries prosper with your tax dollars. Example? How about the two-part stimulus ($169 million/$359 million) to Fisker?

                      That sure is a lot of your money that could have helped jump start new technologies, or encouraged investment in America rather than having sent that money overseas.

                      “The General Welfare Clause, gives Congress the wiggle room to do those things.”

                      Let’s clean this one up … just a bit. The first clause of Article I, Section 8, reads, “The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.” This clause, called the General Welfare Clause or the Spending Power Clause, does not grant Congress the power to legislate for the general welfare of the country; that is a power reserved to the states through the Tenth Amendment. Rather, it merely allows Congress to spend federal money for the general welfare.

                      Madison argued that the clause authorized Congress to spend money, but only to carry out the powers and duties specifically enumerated in the subsequent clauses of Article I, Section 8, and elsewhere in the Constitution, not to meet the seemingly infinite needs of the general welfare. This was later ruled on in 1936 U.S. vs Butler where the Supreme Court invalidated a federal agricultural spending program because a specific congressional power over agricultural production appeared nowhere in the Constitution. According to the Court in Butler, the spending program invaded a right reserved to the states by the Tenth Amendment.

                      … which brings us full circle by to my original position.

                      We sir, are a Federalist-Republic, and that means that the states pre-existed the Federal Government, and retain the sovereignty to legislate closer to the people, and granted the Federal Government very specific, and very clear, enumerated powers, for a very specific reason.

                      … and incase you missed that purpose, it was to avoid centralized totalitarian governance.

                      “Jefferson was against the dead controlling the living, he would not hesitate to do the right thing, why are you guys so sanguine about our decline? We can’t invade everyone!”

                      Not even logical to the conversation, however, I would tell you that I think we have absolutely zero legitimate business in other nation’s business, and this administration should be ashamed for investing my money, and your money into them … except for that we have an even bigger warmonger in office than the last.

                      To summarize, no heart-string pulling, apologetic arguments are going to gain the moral high ground when it comes to constitutional matters. All that the progressives have accomplished is a liberty stripping bastardization of the God given rights (or natural rights for you wrong headed atheists out there) which is protected (and not granted) by the US Constitution.

                    • You forgot that the term ‘General Welfare ‘ is the only phrase to appear twice in the Constitution. It is also in the Preamble …We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

                      Adams opinion is NOT in the Constitution, and if that traitor Jefferson had listened to you guys, Terre Haute would the westernmost city in the US.
                      This flawed interpretation of the Constitution will turn us into highly princilpled, noble, third-world country.

                    • You forget the “limited” parts as defined in what amendment, Greg?

                      Oh yeah, that’s right. We are supposed to forget that amendment … until it opportunistically suits us. Damn, I am not good at this liberal logic.

                      Did you mean to speak of Adams? I spoke of Madison. And what’s this platitude about Jefferson? I thought we had discredited the use of platitudes based on your position on that matter.

                    • I did mean Madison. And of course I refer to Jefferson’s buying the Louisiana Territories before getting Congressional approval.
                      Utah and B hate the Commerce Clause, at least the way it has been used, but it has been used to give the feds the ability to get things done, some good, some bad. You don’t have to like it, but judges with a lot more knowledge of the law approve it use, and we need to do whatever it takes to become competitive again. If you have an idea how to do this within the confines of the Constitution, without resorting to iffy SCOTUS decisions, nor causing governmental and economic upheaval, I am all ears.

                    • It’s not rocket science. How do you manage your finances at home?

                      Your answer lies somewhere in there, unless you are bankrupt.

                    • In other words, you are just another bitch, no answers but personal attacks and dodges.
                      And I would be bankrupt, if were not for Obamacare! That’s right, you are hearing from someone who has benefited from the dreaded health care act. Now that ALL my conditions are covered, I don’t have to decide between living under a bridge or living at all!. of course, the hate in this room for one who speaks the truth is so palpable, you will put that fact in the negative column.

                    • No! You have already refused to answer my question, asked in all seriousness, as I sort of respected you, so I see no need to head-butt the wall one more time. Drop me a line when Joe takes a crap, and you can once again see the light.

                    • Of course I answered your question seriously. Incase it wasn’t obvious, I would balance the nations finances the very same way I balance my home, or you would balance yours. I’m pointing out that responsible folks … no matter their income … do not run more debt than they can pay for.

                      And neither does a responsible president, and your one-voted man, said the very same.

                      So Greg, maybe it’s your hypocritical self who needs to fly out of an ass, so that you can see some light. And then maybe, just maybe, we can return to at lest some modicum of reasoned dialogue.

            • meldamy: Thanks for your explanation, as I did misunderstand your position. You are correct in that only very special and very small entities can ever practice a form of local “communism,” and of course even the early church at Jerusalem would have starved had the great religious entrepreneur Paul not risen to their rescue. So too the first Pilgrims at Plymouth. Lenin and Stalin’s implementation of Marx’s fantasies was always designed to provide a luxurious lifestyle for the nomenklatura while the actual proletariat enjoyed shared misery. Kind of like Obama’s America!!! CDE

              • The Incas had a governmental system based on groups of ten; ten families in a group, ten groups of ten families each, and so on, up to the King. Each group of families elected a leader, who would then vote for a representative of the hundred families, who would vote for the leader of a 1000 families. It worked until Pizarro came along…

                • We are not the Incas, and their flawed society became extinct. Surely that same end result is not what you are hoping for in our society?

                  • Augger, i was just replying to CDE, I thought it was an interesting concept, but I wasn’t proposing it as an alternative. Besides, they were a homogenous group, unlike our situation, where lingering prejudices and memories inhibit our interaction.
                    But it was asymetrical warfare that did in the Incas, not a superior form of government.

                    • “Besides, they were a homogenous group, unlike our situation, where lingering prejudices and memories inhibit our interaction.
                      But it was asymmetrical warfare that did in the Incas, not a superior form of government.”

                      They were neither homogenous, nor did they fall to asymmetrical warfare. Their empire extended from Western South America, to Columbia … and they became extinct from small pox which began to spread before even the Spanish arrived.

                      Going to need you to have your facts straight at some point, please … and thank you.

                    • Get your own facts straight, buddy. The Spanish brought the smallpox to the New World, Pizarro had tried twice before to conquer the Incas. Though they drove him off, the smallpox was introduced, and yes, it helped ease the Spanish conquest. But do you really think the Incas would have prevailed in the end? They had gold, and the Spaniards wanted it, the Incans were doomed.

          • oopsie!…free enterprise is the goal, where there is no ‘too to fail’. Oh you can get big, but the government should not be allowed to use my money to bail you out, a la the big banks. The GM deal was different because the original owners paid for their lousy governance. However, one has to wonder how much the government stewardship of GM affected the resolution of the horrible ignition switch situation. I would hate to see a foreign-owned GM, but it might have been a better option.

            • “but the government should not be allowed to use my money to bail you out a la the big banks”

              But not GM because they paid for their lousy governance? As if big banks do not pay for their lousy governance either?

              One of us is not making any sense today, and I am just not sure which of us. lol

    • No Greg, I asked the exact correct questions … and one’s we all, regardless of party affiliation, need to be asking ourselves. The whole concept is a non-sequitur … a false syllogism, if you will, that the Federal Government is granted the authority in the US Constitution to grant itself ownership of vast swaths of land … even “national parks” in my opinion, as I cannot find it granted by the Constitution to begin with.

      And if my opinion is even remotely correct, then why in God’s name does the Federal Government even need a Bureau of Land Management(BLM), much less one armed with SWAT Teams and Snipers to point military armament at American Citizens?

      Do you remember the heated debates we had about citizens being able to arm themselves similar to the armament of the Federal Government, Greg? Well, this IS the example of why. Not because we want Nuclear Intercontinental Ballistic Missles, Arleigh Burke guided missile destroyers, Abrams tanks, or even hand grenades … as one our our past dear friends would have suggested … but simply because when civil service employees can form militias with un-needed military surplus, and then point them at you … at your wife … your daughter … at US … then by God we should have a right to defend ourselves.

      Let me ask you this Greg, did you vote in such as a way as to give permission for the BLM to point a sniper rifle at your nose? Is that what you want(ed) when you elected officials from whatever party you chose to elect?

      I would hope not.

      • Augger, Bundy made threats against the BLM agents, they had every right to come heavy. That land is my land, and I don’t want freeloaders abusing it. The BLM may not be perfect, what in the heck is? But that is how we protect our natural resources from greedheaded welfare queens like Bundy.

        You act as if the government is not made up of American citizens, as if it is an enemy. It is not, government works for those who participate in it,if that be no one but corporations, then they get the bennies. If you just stand on the sidelines and bitch, you will always something to bitch about, but that is all you will have. Get involved!

        • “Bundy made threats against the BLM agents”

          There shouldn’t be any BLM agents. Did you authorize the Federal Government to organize a BLM militia?

          “they had every right to come heavy”

          No they didn’t, they do not have the constitutional right to exist, and I challenge you to show me where in the Constitution that they do.

          “That land is my land, and I don’t want freeloaders abusing it.”

          Just yours?

          “You act as if the government is not made up of American citizens, as if it is an enemy.”

          Be very careful about making assumptions … because 9 times out of 10, you will be incorrect, and in this case, you are VERY incorrect.

          While there is some contention about the citizenship of some of our elected officials, that is generally an argument I do not engage in … so it is safe to assume that I infact, do not dispute the citizenship of our elected officials. Are we clear on that point? I hope so.

          Now the Federal Government does become the enemy of all people once it steps outside of it’s Constitutional mandate, and once it turns it’s punitive hand against it’s own. Now you can pretend not to know this, and that is your protected right, but I for one … having faced enemies … domestic and abroad … happen to know an enemy when I see one. Are we good on that point as well? I hope so.

          “Get involved!”

          That is exactly what I am doing here, incase you did not notice. 🙂

        • Here is one of the reasons so many assert that Melfamy is dishonest. He KNOWS that it is not what “Joe and Utah think,” it is what the founders said. He has been shown the quotes, but he ignores them. I am not going to bother anymore because I KNOW the founders said that following what melfamy claims is the same as tearing up the entire Constitution (yes, they actually said words to that effect).

          You folks are trying to debate a dishonest and VERY selfish man.

          • “You folks are trying to debate a dishonest and VERY selfish man.”

            I do not look at it as a debate. People read this website (and many others like it Joe), because they are beginning to find themselves confused by what the Republicans and Democrats are doing … and I cannot blame them. They come to these sites to read these exchanges to reconcile within themselves whats going on … to gain a knowledge that they did not have before.

            Whenever a wrong-headed pundit (using that term loosely) hyperventilates nonsensically, and then another responds with sound logic and reasoning, then the outcome becomes clear.

            Call it an exchange of ideas.

            So I encourage these exchanges, and I hope they keep happening. The more the craziness these progressives put out there, the more opportunities to correct the logic presents themselves.

            If the liberals are not very careful, they could in fact face a couple of bloodbaths over the next 2 years. I intend to help that happen.

            • Agreed.

              BTW: our founders’ understanding of Natural Law is NOT Atheistic or even Deistic in nature. It is traced DIRECTLY — through Locke — to Paul and Romans (chp 1-2)

              Hobbes is the Atheist/Deist father of Natural Rights — big govt. makes the rules

              • I know. I added it that way as to not alienate Greg from the conversation and receive a wrong-minded lecture about platitudes. 🙂

        • And Greg, you did not answer my question to you ….

          Let me ask you this Greg, did you vote in such as a way as to give permission for the BLM to point a sniper rifle at your nose? Is that what you want(ed) when you elected officials from whatever party you chose to elect?

          • Stupid question, Augger. I am not worried about having a gunsight up my nostril, because I am not an anti-government, asshole, hiding my theft of public property behind a veil of phony patriotism. I did not threaten violence against men doing their job. Are you aware that This was scheduled to happen last year, but Bundy threatened violence, and it was called off. Hence the heavy-handed tactics and manpower that looks so ominous if you don’t have all the facts

            • We will see how you fair if that end of that gunsight he held up by a Republican administration, Greg. It really is ok to hate those Republicans Greg. That’s why we have a two-party system so far.

              You just simply don’t have to lose your damn mind over it.

              • I don’t care what party a thief belongs to! I don’t care that Obama is a Democrat, I don’t care that I once(once!) voted for him; he should be investigated for blocking the Fast and Furious probe. Bundy is manipulating a bunch of people trained to believe, without question, that all governmental regulations are bad, and all efforts to enforce them are tyrannical.
                And I despise the 2-party system, FYI!

  9. The real ‘welfare queen’ here is the guy defending the govt. — again. Seriously, if our govt. killed little babies, Melfamy would defend it. In fact, he has (abortion). He NEVER opposes the govt. At best, he uses language that makes it look like he acknowledges a govt. wrong, but when was the last time he HONESTLY attacked this govt? I mean, since Obama was elected, that is (telling in itself, since Obama has just been Bush on steroids).

    At the heart of the matter here is the PROGRESSIVE subversion of State lands. It started under the REPUBLICAN, Teddy R. But it is a subversion of original intent. Our founders opposed the federal govt. owning large tracts of land. THAT is what is at the heart of the matter here, and it shows in that — as it has been reported — Bundy is STILL paying the State its fees. So Bundy is not anti-govt.; he is anti-lawlessness.

    • “He NEVER opposes the govt.”

      Not true. Gaging his hyperventilations concerning the previous administration, it’s quite certain he’s found himself in opposition to the government.

      • I did provide for that. I said not since Obama. I then pointed out his hypocrisy there, too, but noting Obama really hasn’t changed Bush’s policies, just gone full throttle. 🙂

            • Joe: We live in a society where pansies have been permitted to cow most men into acting like frightened sheep, afraid to say what they think because some professional victim may take offense!!! Part of your charm is that you speak directly and with confidence even when you’re wrong. Life is too short to be any other way!!! ;>)). CDE

              • CDE,

                Mal-famy is a fraud. Augger has him pegged. Mal-famy ( as in Mal a la Tete) is a staunch Obama supporter and has espoused Marxist doctrine here numerous times. He is just trying to delfect as all Trolls do. Notice how the Conversation strayed from the OP ?

                If it isn’t fed it will go to other Pastures to find other suckers to give it attention , rub its belly and clean up after it.

                Utah had already said it wasn’t welcome here after its Foul-mouthed diatribes ( you saw the beginnings of one above) as well as his constant Misogyny ( again…reference above).

                So as tempting as it might be….Don’t feed the Trolls.It Makes for cleaner pastures and more rational land meaningful dialogue.

                • Don, I have tried, really and honestly tried, to stay away from this site. But the stupidity and dishonesty has mass, black-hole quantity mass; it keeps sucking me in. And to you, meaningful conversation is Joe telling you what to thoink; you haven’t had an original thought in 3 years, lightweight!
                  Blame Augger, if you like, as I only come in here if he is present….aside from Kells, he is the only one who can engage in heated debate, and still treat me with respect afterward. For that, and his interesting and challenging questions, I salute him

    • Joe, we agree on Obama continuing many of Bush policies, I have written about that since he abandoned the single-payer plan, I still get a laugh out of your demonizing TR and Wilson. Wilson was a church deacon, and under them began America’s rise to preeminence among nations, and the growth of our middle class came with progressivism.
      You are the most egregious liar I have ever met; your stupid lies about Margaret Sanger wanting to exterminate the Blacks, your inability to credit the Muslims with being more tolerant of Jews than Catholics, and your refusal to admit that Deists led the Revolution and wrote the Declaration of Independence is laughable and pitiable, and so easily proven if one isn’t so married to a false philosophy consisting of nativism and pseudo-christian fear of a changing world that is leaving narrow-minded idealogues behind.
      I’m leaving now, please don’t hate Augger for not hating me as much as you do.

      • Greg,

        I don’t hate you. In fact, I can’t think of anyone I actually hate. But I have no use for someone who refuses to accept the truth in preference to replacing it with their own desires. You have repeatedly demonstrated that this is the practical limit of your reasoning abilities.

        BTW: this is also why you so often contradict yourself, and why Don and Augger have such an easy job picking you apart. It also accounts for why you never see it, and never accept it. You simply replace the truth with your desire to be perfect and accept your own lies.

        • Are you e so stupid, Joe, that you think I believe I’ve been picked apart by that moron Ameche? Augger makes the occasional point, but that is because there is only room for so many heads up your egotistic ass. You lie with impunity, because these people have misplaced their trust. Then again, anybody who can’t see what an empty-headed right-wing parrot Dusty is can’t be trusted to know the truth from your self-infatuated, sick vision of the world. My apologies for ever thinking you were a good man with weird ideas. You are a good man, Joe. You are servant of the dark side, a man with no understanding of right and wrong. I long for the day when either you realize how horribly wrong you are about everything, or one or two people in remove the scales form their eyes and see what a buffoon they have been idolizing.
          But I don’t hold my breath.

        • Joe: You don’t need my affirmation, but Greg is obviously a bit short in his historical knowledge. Sanger’s support for eugenics as the solution to the “Black problem” in the Progressive America of the early to mid 20th century is both well documented and readily accessible. I’ve read it and it is disgusting racism at it’s worst. Wilson was even worse, whatever his religious connections, and one of my grad school mentors co-wrote the definitive study of Wilson’s developmental years, WOODROW WILSON: THE YEARS OF PREPARATION, and Wilson was racist to his rancid core. BTW, in addition to their racist motivation, the eugenics solution to Black Americans was viewed as essential in order for the Progressive policy agenda to become economically feasible, since the Progressives viewed African Americans as inferior and likely to take full advantage of government welfare programs, driving up the programs’ costs.

          During the early years of Islam, Muslims were in fact more tolerate of Jews than the Roman Catholic Church, but that is damning with faint praise. The Inquisition was a stain on the history of humankind, and the Papacy’s torture and murder of Jews and suspected Jews was really the first Holocaust, a fact that has suppressed for centuries. Islam’s tolerance of Jews and Christians ended centuries ago, and their current persecution of both groups today reveals the pre-modern mindset of many Muslims. Islam’s early promise in terms of tolerance and art ended with the ascendency of the Wahhabi movement, which is still aggressively supported by the Saudi dynasty today.

          Finally, Benjamin Franklin, a close friend of my ancestor Samuel Rhoads, was the driving intellectual force behind both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson drafted the actual language of the Declaration and James Madison the Constitution. Franklin and Jefferson were both non-traditional Christians, but they were no less Christians than the Unitarians of New England. Franklin often worshipped in Christ Church, an Anglican Church in Philadelphia, where another ancestor of mine, John Penn, was often in the congregation, and even sometimes attended the Quaker meeting where Rhoads was a member. Franklin’s autobiography talks a lot about religious faith,nincluding a great story about attending an outdoor revival meeting featuring George Whitfield. Jefferson was enough of a Christian to have created his own version of the Christian Bible, which largely cut-out most of the Bible’s miraculous passages. Madison was an Episcopalian who was influenced by Deist thinking, as were most educated people during the revolutionary period, but no American president has ever identified himself as a Deist or as an atheist. By the way, Deists and Unitarians were far from atheistic in their beliefs. Interesting how one short comment could be wrong in so many easily refutable ways. CDE

          • CDE,

            Franklin’s self-written epitaph reveals that he was either of the Judeo/Christian beliefs, or Muslim — and there is ZERO evidence he was a Mohamtin.

            Otherwise, I have no quarrel with anything you just said save one VERY important point. Islam’s tolerance of the Jews and Christians ended with MUHAMMAD — and in his lifetime! Islam’s holy books ALL testify to this FACT — which is why it is a FACT: because we do not get to tell the founder of the religion that he is wrong about the religion HE created 🙂

  10. Melfamy seems more like a malady, that has no relationship with truth as long as a lie works better for his purpose.

    • JJ – liberals love to be wrong about all sorts of things, but only as long as they are winning elections. Thats why they love to change the language (as Joe has pointed out numerous times).

      People like this are motivated only by a hatred for Republicans that outweighs their love for Americans.

      Think about it.

    • JJ, you would be afraid of the truth, should ever actually seek it. I do not lie, and if you weren’t a republican sheeple, you would see that Joe is the biggest liar in this room, Utah is a close second, but you are so enamored of their self-righteousness, you cannot be trusted to give a correct analysis.

    • “You guys need me; I hear that your numbers are down.”

      Platitudes, platitudes, platitudes … from a delusional old f**k. Greg wants to roll out platitudes after lecturing us about them. Well, two can play at that game, so let’s begin …

      Folks, This is rantings and ravings of an ill informed imbecile and misanthropic asshole (How did you like those platitudes, f**k-wad?) See, everyone can play that game … except in your eyes. We are nothing more than second class citizens, aren’t we?

      Now thats’ out of the way, let’s just move on to debunking your latest claim quoted above …

      — 168 visitors before lunch today. The only thing that gets about that much traffic is your bunghole, so I hope you use soft tissue.
      — 597 views. People are coming back, not because of your self-aggrandizing posts, but rather because they love to watch us make you look like a fool (I would advise you do not allow your family to look over your shoulder, it’s embarrassing).
      — Over 3 million views for a meager 52,545 comments so far. That means people enjoy what we give them.

      Now when your stupid ass blog site can match these numbers, come talk to us. Otherwise just go f**k yourself. Our rights are not dependent upon your warped perception of our need.

      Oh yeah, and go f**k yourself too. 🙂

      p.s. — immediately go next door, kiss your neighbors feet, and thank them from the bottom of your heart for paying for your healthcare. Show some respect for those who prop your insolvent ass up. It’s the dignified thing to do.

      • Do you think this bullshit makes me angry?
        On the contrary, it proves my point. Not really, that is just a statement that the likes you throw out when I catch you spouting lies (I’m talking collectively here Augger; you don’t lie so much as blindly repeat lies that a child can see are bullshit).
        If I’m a leech, so is your Mother, assuming, of course, that she lived to collect SS, and didn’t die at her own hand when she realized what a sick, perverted, and hateful bastard she had brought into the world.I don’t know anything about your Father, but then, neither do you!
        Problem with your statement, though, as I’m not a leech, I am paying full price for my insurance, but at least now, I can get insurance!
        My neighbor, Doris, is 80 and on Social Security, Medicare, and MedicAid. Right, she’s a member in good standing of the FSA.
        Are you jealous? Don’t worry, you will get your chance at my ass; who knows when I will end up anesthetized, alone in a prep room with you; (stop fondling yourself, Augger). Meanwhile, keep fucking the hoboes you round up for Utah’s hunts, as they aren’t so picky about your questionable personal habits.
        That was fun, Augger, thanks for inviting me to play. I will be at the No-Name around 5 today. If you show up, you know what I look like; introduce yourself, Drinks are on me. I can afford it, my EBT card just got renewed. For the rest of Utah’s ass-kissers reading this, I drive a blue Hyundai, so don’t slash the wrong guy’s tires!

        • “Do you think this bullshit makes me angry?”

          Did I state that, and what makes you think I would even care. You flatter yourself entirely too much.

          “that is just a statement that the likes you throw out when I catch you spouting lie”

          You caught me what? Nice try, dolt.

          “hateful bastard she had brought into the world”

          Well holy shit! You actually got something correct … for once. Boy oh boy, you are on a roll now old man.

          “I am paying full price for my insurance, but at least now, I can get insurance!”

          You haven’t begun to tally the cost of your insurance card, if you happen to be one of the lucky few who has gotten one, much less one that scans and works at a clinic. Speaking of clinics, enjoy your choices.

          “My neighbor, Doris, is 80 and on Social Security, Medicare, and MedicAid. Right, she’s a member in good standing of the FSA.”

          You know I am not speaking of retirees who paid their social security and or their pensions, but then again, we do not see Doris in here bantering for the true freeloaders to the system whom you so generously defend … but then again, pigs tend to congregate together in the slop.

          Kiss her ass quickly, she already paid your way.

          “Are you jealous”

          Of a man who drives a blue … what was it you said … Hyundai? Are you serious?

          “I will be at the No-Name around 5 today.”

          Cannot make it today, as I am paying for your Obamacare. Tell Burnie I said hello though.

          “I can afford it, my EBT card just got renewed.“

          That’s right, it is after the 15th. However, you are going to have to hit Glenwood, and get a few more cards, maybe even a couple of SUNCAP cards to even begin to afford the brand(s) I imbibe upon.

          And don’t worry about your Hyundai, I doubt there is a person here that believes your blue Hyundai (or even yourself) is worth the legal implications of slashing your tires. Despite what you might think, there are just better targets further up the gene-pool.

          Enjoy your toddy. I hear its great for the joints. 🙂

          • I am sorry you can’t make it, it would have been fun. Burnie read one of my pieces on the air once, he’s a fan!
            But there is no reason for me to show up now, rain check?
            And I don’t own a Hyundai (this lying thing is catching!); I would be crazy to let a bunch of childish and hateful right-wing bastards know what I drive.

                  • LOL! You know, I really do envy you. I saved a man’s life with CPR once. It was good feeling, to say the least; I consider it my greatest accomplishment. But you save lives on a daily basis. That has got to be an incredible feeling, or does it just become routine?

                    • That my friend is nothing to envy. Each emergency is a terrifying experience for everyone involved.

                      The fun stuff is when a patient from Bay Point shows up in the middle of the night with a roach in their ear. Envy that! It’s the most incredibly funny thing you will ever witness. 🙂

                    • I was terrified while trying to save that fellow, the good feeling came after his eyes rolled back down and he threw up. So, yeah I see where you’re coming from.

                      That had to be funny, but not to the patient!

  11. You are right Steve. Greg probably couldn’t get attention on any other site so he comes here to blather. He has been on different forums for years with readers skipping over and ignoring his “wisdom.” He can be a foul mouthed sort too, thankfully this site has stayed away from the “potty mouth” language.

  12. Augger, I agree with Kells. My name is not Lela Markham either.

    Greg has been, so far, polite on Kells FB, where I am debating him.

    For the record, coming late to the conversation, I agree with you. Greg is a statist who thinks the rest of us are supposed to pay for his life. He is representative of the millions of statists who inhabit the United States who influence the much greater part of the population that never gave any of it much thought, who would probably choose liberty if they understood what it was.

    Of course, being an Alaskan, I don’t think the BLM should exist. Turn all the federal land over to the people through their states and let us decide what to do with it, based upon our own state cultures. Nevada might reopen public lands to grazing or sell the land to the ranchers who use it while Alaska would probably keep a large percentage of ours as state-owned multiple use land. That would be consistent with our different cultures. What America started out to be.

  13. FYI (you all). Better not screw around with a gopher tortoise in Florida either (nor his buddy the Florida Black Bear),

    Gopher tortoises are a threatened wildlife species and are protected by state law, Chapter 68A-27, Florida Administrative Code. Gopher tortoises must be relocated before any land clearing or development takes place, and property owners must obtain permits from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission before they can move them. For more information about permitting guidelines or the laws protecting gopher tortoises please contact the gopher tortoise biologist in your region.

  14. A developer has paid a $60,000 fine to settle violations of Collier County’s gopher tortoise protection rules at a golf course community being built in East Naples.
    The county’s calculation of the gopher tortoise fine against VK Development is a mix of simple arithmetic and complicated guessing.
    Studies identified 19 gopher tortoise burrows at the Treviso Bay site, which scientists estimate could be home to 13 tortoises, according to county figures.
    After the clearing, efforts to excavate gopher tortoises from their burrows resulted in two tortoises being killed and four eggs being destroyed, according to county figures.
    VK Development agreed to stop work around the gopher tortoise burrows for five months to see whether tortoises would emerge and then could be relocated. That resulted in three tortoises and two eggs being moved to a preserve at the development, according to county figures.
    The county calculated the $60,000 fine by taking the original 13 tortoises, adding the two killed tortoises and then subtracting the three living tortoises to come up with 12 tortoises. The county charged $5,000 per tortoise.
    http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2006/oct/04/developer_pays_tortoise_protection_fine/?local_news

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