Do JWs and Mormons Go to Heaven?

The other day I posted on my son chatting up a cute Jehovah’s Witness. Silly B. and Don warned me that the JWs are a cult as are the Mormons. Oh, here’s the latest from one of those evil cultists: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/16/mitt-romney-lasts-2-rounds-with-evander-holyfield-in-charity-boxing-match/ Yeah, they’re dangerous……. and liable to bite your ear off!

Speaking to others did have me concerned on the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I’ve always thought that they were Biblically based from their literature.

Today I did some investigating and discovered that they veer from Christianity in that they believe in pre-existence. Oddly enough, this belief, presented by a 3rd-century Christian theologian called Origen, was voted down by a group of men (Second Council of Constantinople); so most Christian sects today go with the council’s interpretation of the OT verses.

Interestingly, the Jehovah Witnesses don’t believe in the Trinity. I suppose because their beliefs primarily rely on the OT verses to back up their claim of pre-existence, they can then explain why 144,000 are to be God’s chosen ones. This seems logical, as there are so many people in the world, it always seemed outrageous to me that God would exclude so many. But if souls are recycled, it makes perfect sense.

The Mormons believe in the Trinity, but view it in the manner of pre-mortal existence. From a Mormon:

Mormons most commonly use the term “Godhead” to refer to the Trinity. The first article of faith
for the Latter-day Saints reads: “We believe in God, the Eternal Father,
and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” Latter-day Saints
believe God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one in will
and purpose but are not literally the same being or substance, as
conceptions of the Holy Trinity commonly imply.

Now then, if we are to believe in the Trinity, would not the acceptance of God be the same as Christ as they are one? It would make perfect sense for the salvation of those who died before Christ; for logically, they could never have known Him.

In my opinion, Einstein touched upon this knowingly or unknowingly:

“The distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.”

Coincidence is God’s way of remaining anonymous.”

 

So is it by thought, word and deed that we are granted paradise? Is it by the belief and acceptance of Christ alone? Is it a combination of both? Is the sin of being a homosexual greater than the sin of greed? (I only mention that as Christ spoke on greed, not homosexuality…..)

 

Romans 9:18 states:

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

 

 

 

 

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48 thoughts on “Do JWs and Mormons Go to Heaven?

  1. Kells,

    I have told you, and I have given you the Scriptures that testify I am telling you the truth. It is not me, but CHRIST and His Apostles who say that, unless you teach the Christ and Gospel of Scripture, you are leading people down the road to ruin and to death. Does this mean ALL Mormons and JW’s are condemned? I don’t know. I suspect it is possible some may well still be saved, but ONLY if they do not accept the teachings of their religions. In that case, however, are they really Mormons/JW’s?

    My Pastor put this problem in a way that I had never thought of before today. He said that people who teach a different Jesus and a different Gospel still want to teach Jesus, but they have moved the target. For whatever reason, they do not want to teach the REAL Jesus or the REAL Gospel, so they create a new one and then teach that. But I ask you, if a person teaches a Jesus or a Gospel they created, are they teaching you the path to salvation, or damnation? It cannot be both. It must be one or the other.

    Mormons — like Muslims — claim the Bible has been corrupted. I can show them otherwise, but that is irrelevant. If the Bible can be corrupted, then it is not the Word of the One True Living God. So why would they still worship that God? The answer is simple: THEY DO NOT! Both worship a god of their own creation. They moved the target. The same applies to the JW’s.

    Now, you have to make the same choice. Either the Bible IS the Word of the One True Living God or it is not. If you say it is not, then why worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? You are worshiping a God who cannot protect His Word, so He cannot be God. But if you do accept the Bible as the Word of God, then you have to hold to what it says, and it clearly says that anyone who teaches a different Jesus or a different Gospel is to be accursed. Thus, according to CHRIST and His Apostles, Muslims, Mormons and JW’s are to be accursed.

    Not MY ‘opinion;’ the clear Word of God. You can chose to ignore this, but you do so at great peril to you and all those whom you influence. Now, do you know what Scripture says about those who lead others astray by false teachings? Or should I ask that question to you this way: is it loving someone to teach them the road to hell? Or is loving them as you do yourself mean teaching them the Jesus and Gospel according to Scripture and correcting them when they try to move the target so it is easier to hit?

    • B., as I pointed out in my post, it was men who decided against preexistence due to their interpretation. You do know that men also removed books from the Bible, right? In essence, man has given you the Bible according to their interpretation. All that aside, I have a very difficult time believing that if we only proclaim Christ within us that we shall be saved. Once again, I do not know God’s mind…..

      • Kells,

        If you do not believe that God, through the Holy Spirit, can, has and still works through men, then why look to the Bible at all? After all, Moses, the Prophets and the Apostles were just men. So, by your reasoning, we should not listen to a thing they said. We should not even listen to Jesus because His words were recorded by ‘just men.’ See how easily you just dismissed the whole of God’s word and replaced it with YOUR desires?

        As for me, I believe God — through His Holy Spirit — can, has and still does work through men. For this reason, I believe He (God) saw to it that the things of men were excluded from His Word (the Bible) and his Word was retained as he intended.

        I am a disciple and slave of the Lord, Jesus Christ. I trust Him, and part of that trust means I Trust that He and the Father have preserved God’s Word. Apparently, you do not share in my trust/faith in the Lord, and for that, I pray for you.

    • True belief in Christ Jesus is not a life of ease, it is difficult to follow Christ. There is no easy way. Self abnegation is not for sissies, subsuming your own will to the Will of God is a hard task, but it is the first step in the straight and narrow road to salvation in Christ.
      God’s blessings to you.

      • But Father Paul,

        If we were to accept the Mormon and JW’s version of Christ and His Gospel, then the gate is wide and the road is smooth. When we can change Christ to suit our desires and THEN claim we believe in our own creation, are we worshiping God, or ourselves?

        I do not believe Kells sees that this is what many people do. Even those who claim to be part main stream Christianity do this. I have tried to warn Kells that she must not believe the idea that ‘all faith’ or ‘all belief’ gets to heaven. Scripture teaches the opposite. Maybe you will have better luck? Or maybe you disagree with me as well? I pray it will be the former and not the latter.

        • I agree with you, we must follow the narrow way, the very steep and demanding path that causes many to try to find and easier way, thus we have cults and over 5,000 protestant sects in the US, each with their own version of god… I follow God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, the thrice blessed Trinity, our Triune God who exists out of time, One God both noe and unto the ages of ages, Amen!

          • Father, my point is that some Christians believe that you must merely state that you accept Christ as your Savior. Now then, does that make the lot of serial killers the steep and demanding path after this proclamation?

            • Those who believe such are fools and they are in grave error, such that their very souls are in danger. Frequent confession of one’s sins is required for we are all sinners in both small and large ways. We are supposed to reform our lives to eschew sin, to confess our sins freely and seek the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to help conform ourselves to God’s will. Simple way to determine if you are engaging in sin: If something is you exercising your will (or desires) you can be pretty sure you are engaging in sin. Sin is where man’s will overrides God’s will.

    • I found this comment on a story about the Pope and his recent political activities…. in lieu of actually ministering. It mentioned Einstein and the concept of evil and jibes some with Father Paul’s comment below. I thought is was expressed well.

      ” Einstein’s failure to understand the motives of God are the result of his incorrect assumption that God intended this universe as His ultimate perfect creation. Einstein could not get past the moral problems that are present in our universe. He assumed, as most atheists do, that a personal God would only create a universe which is both good morally and perfect physically. Where Einstein erred was in that thinking that there was a god who designed the universe, but designed it in such as way as to allow evil without a purpose. If the universe were designed and it included evil, then there must have been a purpose for that evil.
      However, according to Christianity, the purpose of the universe is not to be morally or physically perfect, but to provide a place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or reject God – to live with Him forever in a new, perfect universe, or reject Him and live apart from Him for eternity. It would not be possible to make this choice in a universe in which all moral choices are restricted to only good ones. Einstein didn’t seem to understand that one could not choose between good and bad if bad did not exist. It’s amazing that such a brilliant man could not understand such a simple logical principle.

      In these apostate times, the Word of God is under attack like never before. The reason why is simple… if Satan can pervert the Word of God into a lie, then he can control the masses! “

      • EXACTLY!

        People ‘move the target.’ In other words, they try to re-create God, Christ, His Gospel or the whole idea of God and Who/What He should be. When we do these things, we say in our hearts that we are as gods, and we assume the throne of God. Since His temple is the heart of man, we take our place on God’s seat in His temple.

        In Scriptural terms, we become the lawless man in 2 Thessalonians 2.

        • Yes…”Subtle is the Lord” and “God does not play dice with the Universe” are well known quotes.
          But you missed First, the parenthetical reference….” He assumed, as most atheists do, that a personal God…”.Perhaps because the writer could have made it more clear by saying instead….. “, as most athiests ALSO do,”. I agree that would have been clearer.

          Second the writer DOES show that Einstein believed in God in the context and body of his argument.

          Third and most important….. the LAST two sentences.

  2. You ask :

    “…So is it by thought, word and deed that we are granted paradise? Is it by the belief and acceptance of Christ alone?..”

    Interesting. Since you brought up Einstein. You are asking a kind of mathematical inquiry with your question.

    Is it an “If and only If” Condition or is it a “necessary and sufficient Condition”.

    • Don,

      What does it matter when she has changed the definition of Christ? It is like a Progressive saying they believe in and support the Constitution. Many Progressives do, but their idea of the Constitution is a living document, which means it changes to suit their whim. That is NOT the Constitution our founders ratified, so they do NOT believe in the same Constitution.

      Kells understands that distinction, but — for some inexplicable reason — she does not see that the same principle is in play here. the Mormons and JW’s believe in a ‘living Jesus’ doctrine. They change Him and His Gospel to suit their desires, then pretend as though their versions are = to God’s. They are not, so how can both have the same saving power? They cannot. One is of God, the others are of men. But when pressed to face this fact, Kells argues that ALL are of men.

      All i know is she is on what I would consider to be dangerous grounds.

      • By her arguing thus….she has changed the argument into a Mathematical one rather than a spiritual one. That is placing the “Spiritual” under the auspices of the rational mind of man.

        Arguing mathematically leads one way….spiritually leads another…..like the Y in the road. That is what I am trying to illustrate.

        • Don,

          In Scriptural terms, I think you are saying she is trying to take Grace out of the equation. If so, I agree. Any time man tries to ‘reason’ his way to God, he has already failed. man can NEVER justify himself to God. We are imperfect, so our slightest failure deserves eternal punishment. Only God can pardon us, and even then, it requires someone to pay our penalty in our place. That is what Christ did on the cross, and why He alone is our Savior. It is why Jesus is the only way to the father. Only Christ could pay the price of death and still survive — because Christ is God and God can do anything.

          Still, our salvation can only be achieved by placing our faith in Christ. If we create a different Jesus, then our faith is NOT in the Jesus that saves, but one of our own design. That will lead to damnation, and it will not be God’s fault, but ours — because we chose that path all on our own.

          This is why it is essential that we teach the True Jesus and the True Gospel, and why we must do what we can to caution others NOT to be deceived by false teachers. After all, when Jesus said there will be many false teachers/prophets/christs, he had Muhammad and Smith etc in mind. How is this so hard to see? And why do so many refuse to accept it when it is so clearly explained? Because they worship self more than God. If that were not true, then they would obey Christ and follow Him and His Gospel instead of chasing after things of man’s own design.

          • “… If we create a different Jesus, then..”

            Then it is not Jesus period !

            I have this quote saved in my Quotes File :

            ” If we don’t recognize and accept Natural Law and the morality that follows from it, all we will ever see is reflections of our own desires disguised as Truth.”……….. Joe Bakanovic.

      • The point is you have structured the argument and thus your thinking is a NON-Metaphysical way. Further you are now equating Spiritual with Meta-physical. I’m not sure they are the same.

      • And your “angle” it would appear veers towards “Necessary and Sufficient Condition”…..

  3. Kells,

    You have the Mormon view of the Trinity all wrong. They believe the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are three distinctly separate beings. They are polytheists. It is on their own web site. You just have to keep reading.

    BTW: they also believe that Adam is (became) god, and that he ‘borrowed’ Mary to have physical relations to bear BOTH Jesus and Satan. Yes, they believe Satan is Christ’s brother.

    You need to do some more research. Mormons are not what you think they are. This is why they keep secrets from the outside world.

    • Don’t they also believe they will each get their own “planet” after death ?

      Or do I have this confused with the Modern Progressives belief about the here and now ?

      • No, Mormons believe that those who did enough good works and who achieved a certain level of enlightenment will get their own planet to populate. it is why they believe in polygamy. They believe they stay married for eternity (something Jesus said does NOT happen).

        They also believe in levels of heaven. Glenn has eluded to the fact that he expects to find Hitler in heaven. I only assume Beck meant a low level of heaven, but still…

        If you read the official site of the LDS’s, you will eventually find all sorts of stuff that modern Mormons have changed/hidden from the world. If it were common knowledge, we would not be debating whether or not they are a cult — we’d all know it.

        • OK so One planet not many. And a lot of Babes….err “wives’ to “ponder” eternity with…… 72 wives per chance ? Nahh.

          Levels of Heaven. Sort of Hindu-esque or even Buddhist ( as in levels of enlightenment ).

          And the LDS managed to put all this together without the benefit of LSD. Who says there aren’t wonders in the world.

      • No, I read and understood it just fine. You left it ambiguous as to whether or not the Mormons believe in the Trinity as it was taught by Christ. They do not, but you sort of danced around this fact. Sadly, this is the exact point of your post to which I am objecting. You just don’t seem to see it. The Mormons have created their own religion and their own god and their own jesus. This makes them a cult — period. But it also means they can find no salvation in their gods because they are — by definition — false gods.

        As for the part where you question the fate of those who died before Christ: read your Scriptures. Jesus covered this. He said the dead before Him would hear His Gospel, so they did. And if they believed in Christ, they were saved.

        Scripture answers all the questions I have ever heard you ask. So how is it you do not have the answers? Or is it that you would rather accept the word of men rather than reading God’s Word for yourself?

  4. Also, I keep hearing people say this:

    “(I only mention that as Christ spoke on greed, not homosexuality…..)”

    But only the ignorant think they are making a point. Christ spoke of a sexual morality so strict, no human can keep to it. According to Jesus, even a thought or a lustful look is adultery. But Jesus also said that the law will last forever. Part of that law is not to be sexually immoral, and along with marriage outside of sex, homosexuality is included. Christ did not have to address Homosexuality. In His time and that culture, it was a given that homosexuality is a sin. Why would He need to address the obvious? But for those who think it necessary, Christ’s hand-picked Apostles DID address the subject, and they — speaking with Christ’s authority — DID condemn it.

    Please read your Scriptures, Kells. PLEASE!

    And for those following this discussion, I beg you, read them for yourself and — if necessary — find a teacher or rabbi who knows the word to guide you. But always follow Scripture, and Scripture tells us to test everything we hear against Scripture. This is why I have no fear I am teaching Kells incorrectly. Nothing I have told her is of my own mind. It is all in the Word of God. Therefore, I am just repeating what God has already said and praying she and other swill listen, accept and live it.

    • PLEASE read YOURS! Homosexuality doesn’t even make the top 10 (as in commandments) yet they are condemned far worse than any other sort of sinner! We are all of us sinners, and we would do right to repent. But it is not our right to damn people because of our individual beliefs. Jesus welcomed sinners; reckon that’s why we get along. Satan seduces sinners….sneaky snakes always lie. I believe an individual will know Jesus when they are shown love from their fellow man. In the end, we will not be the judge of a person’s soul.

      • Kells, I am not the one focusing on homosexuality, but it most certainly is addressed by God and He condemned it. What’s more, I have written — to Christians — to tell them that God does not differentiate between sins. Read the OYL. I told believers that homosexuality is EQUAL to sex outside of marriage. Nor do I damn. They do that to themselves.

        Jesus welcomed sinners — but if they refused to repent, He sent them away!!! And He openly damned those who thought they were not sinners.

        But you are correct: Satan deceives. But guess what? He can take the form of an angel of light and he can claim to be love. In fact, all love outside of the TRUE Christ and the TRUE Gospel is love unto death. I only wish you could understand this, but you cannot see past the reflection of your own desires…

        • You and Don are really something else! The both of you have this arrogance, this condescending mean streak about you which permeates the opposite of Christian love. If I were to go there, I would ask why the hello you boys weren’t required to memorize the Apostle’s Creed during your two years of Catechism. Oh, wait! You’re Baptist! (the service with no order, rhyme nor reason.) My apologies. (especially for the music you’ve offered the world.)

          ^ See what that looks like? It’s ugly. I will stick to my guns and let God be the judge.

          PS ~ Rowan met with the JW cutie and knew off the bat it was an incorrect fit, but did not speak out. Lutherans are stubborn, but respectful………….until we find a nail and a hammer and feel we must make our point.

          • A nail and a Hammer do not a point make.

            They are tools, which you are using to self-justify. That is the central issue….. As you say ” *I* will stick to *my* guns.”

            ” I, Me, Mine ” to quote the song ….. the argument at hand isn’t about us. It is about this :

            “In these apostate times, the Word of God is under attack like never before. The reason why is simple… if Satan can pervert the Word of God into a lie, then he can control the masses! “

          • It does sound though like Rowan met with her for the right reason ….. being a JW cutie I mean.

            And I’ll leave Hammers and nails outta that scenario.

            • That was funny. She told him that a soul dies like a candle that has been blown out. He told me that he wanted to say to her, “What about the smoke?” (So yes, it was not the 95 shades of grey….)

              • You asked if they Go to heaven.

                I don’t know…..but I betcha they all go to either Walmart or Target !!

                ( having been similar to your son in age ….a hundred years ago…. 95 shade of something or other is intha cards eventually. Sorry Mom…. but it’s true. Prepare yourself… ;- ). )

          • Kells,

            I am not being mean. You actually know better, too — because you know me and you know that I am not mean to others. You just do not like people telling you what Scripture says when Scripture disagrees with you.

      • Sounds like you are settin’ to create your own version of Jesus.

        A new and improved Jeesaz religun : Simple and sweet…..

        Rule (1) “Have a heapin’ helpin’ of our ‘Hospitality’ “.
        Rule (2) Don’t Judge ( except traditional Christians).
        Rule (3) Go to rule (1) and…. help yourself to more.

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