URGENT! Do NOT Listen to Glenn Beck on this Issue!
On his radio show, on Feb 2, 2015, at 0949 EST (the first hour of his show), Glenn Beck said that all of God’s people need to stand together — then went on to say that all religions belong to God’s people. THIS IS EVIL BECAUSE THIS IS A LIE! Do not listen to him. Reject anyone and everyone who tells you that all gods of the world are the same. This means reject Glenn Beck, too — at least on this issue. Beck is excellent at teaching history, but he is extremely dangerous on matters of God and faith. No matter what faith you are, DO NOT LISTEN TO GLENN BECK ON MATTERS OF GOD AND FAITH! Now, I understand this is a harsh stance, and that many will reject me for taking it, so let me explain why I am trying to warn you away from anyone who claims all gods are the same. Continue reading
The Rio Norte Line 
Keep saying it Brother !!
There’s a lot of good Info he gives about the history and Evils of Socialism and Totalitarianism…..and those who are trying to push that agenda through today’s Progressivism.
BUT….. BUT, there is something Vitally WRONG about his stance on religion….his “preaching”.
DonAmeche,
I know 😦
Joe: I agree with you on this one, since the only test of any religion’s truthfulness & efficacy is on the fruit (in the words of Jesus of Nazareth) that it produces among the individuals who follow its tenets. While Christianity & Judaism have both wandered into evil actions during their long histories, the societies that have grown out of both have at maturity resulted in individual freedom, justice & economic success, especially when compared to other faiths, with Islam being the most extreme example.
The Christian Old Testament & the Jewish Prophetic & Historical books are replete with stories of how the Hebrew nation paid dearly when it wandered from the requirements set down in the Torah as the commands of Adonai. The Christian New Testament & the subsequent history of the Christian Church tell similar stories of how individual ambition for power & later identification with the Roman Empire set Christianity on a course where the Christian churches, Western (Roman) & Eastern (Constantinople) began to serve the ambitions of its leaders, committing atrocities along the way & becoming for a time alienated from the teachings of Jesus & Paul. But for the most part, Christianity stopped torturing & burning people hundreds of years ago, while Islam continues to view torture, rape, mutilation & murder by beheading, stoning & crucifixion as entirely appropriate approaches dealing with “infidels.” Reading the Koran & the Haditha explains why…the “Prophet of Allah” practiced all these atrocities frequently & commanded his followers to do the same!!!
If one studies the major religions of the world, one can make a case that most share a concern for treating others fairly, living for more than one’s selfish pursuits & belief in a power that is beyond human understanding & whose form & substance cannot be conceived by logic or rationality, both of which are human means of understanding everything related to the natural world. Beyond that common ground, the religions which have succeeded over the centuries are differentiated by the cultural milieu from which they grew. I suspect Joe, that you will disagree with me on that point, so I will qualify it as my observation drawn from personal study & the opportunities I’ve had to observe most of the major faiths in their natural environments.
But I see Islam as qualifiably different from all others in that the Islamic holy writings & hence the founder of Islam, command violence & atrocities be inflicted on those who choose not to believe in Allah as the “One True God” or in the pedaphile, rapist & murderer Mohammed as Allah’s prophet. Muslims have been true to their Founder’s commands & continue to be completely intolerant of other faiths today. The “God” of Islam is quite different from those of other faiths. CDE
Hola Chuck !
Here is but a BRIEF list to support your Comments. And for those who talk about “Cherry Picking” quotes and commands from the koran……me must all remember the command that all muslims engage in Taqiyyah and Kitman when associating with a Non-Believer ( Non muslim).
Qur’an 2:191 “Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.”
Qur’an 3:28 “Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.”
Qur’an 3:85 “Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.”
Qur’an 5:33 “Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam”
Qur’an 8:12 “Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the
Qur’an.”
Qur’an 8:60 “Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.”
Qur’an 8:65 “The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.”
Qur’an 9:5 “When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.”
Qur’an 9:28 “The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.”
Qur’an 9:30 “The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.”
Qur’an 9:123 “Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.”
Qur’an 22:19 “Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods,
boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.”
Qur’an 47:4 “Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you
catch them.”
DomAmeche,
VERY brief — and you didn’t cite anything from the Sunnah/Hadith (the sayings and traditions of Muhammad, and second highest holy book in Islam).
I didn’t. And you know that I have studied them.
The reason is because I wanted to give a List that is EASILY reproducable for Bloggers and those who FB and Tweet. As I have found if the Info is too long for the Millenials they will ignore or discount it….possibly because their freinds do. But smaller bits tend to be sent.
So purely an ease of Transmission decision.
DonAmeche,
Short attentions pans are by….
What was I going to say?
oh, yeah — by design!
And as we know…. 9 out 10 “designers” are Progressive…. and the other one is lying… ;- ))
CDE,
Thanks. While I do not entirely agree with your comment, at least we seem to be on the same general side of this issue.
Now, for me (the philosopher in me, anyway), the key is this: what is it that is actually taught by a given religion? That is how we define the religion: not by how well a follower does or does not follow the religion’s teachings, but by how that follower would live if they did. In that case, the world would have a difficult time finding any fault in the Judeo/Christian follower, but every Muslim on earth would be trying to kill them.
CDE has identified the problem that Beck is referencing? I suggest that all read Charles’ opening paragraph a second time s-l-o-w-l-y and THINK about what he is stating!
Don’s brief list is accurate, but out of context as I read his list in my Qur’an, leading to the gross misconception of the interpretation followed emotionally by many followers of Islam.
A rational (impossible?) discussion of religion by practical unemotional leaders would be a start to understanding the TRUE meaning of God?
Joe is on the correct path, but ALL Muslims are not trying to kill me?
EdwardS
EdwardS,
First, I agree with your urging of caution in regards to CDE’s comment. Now, can you please explain what you mean by:
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say and would like clarification before I put my foot in my mouth. Thanks 🙂
Joe,
As always (almost) our discussions are not the best when brief.
My Qur’an 2:191 Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love aggressors.
Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is more grievous than bloodshed. But do not fight them within the precincts of the Holy Mosque unless they attack you there; if they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they mend their ways, know that God is forgiving and merciful.
This verse may include 2:192, which is not identified in my Qur’an.
Verse 3:28 Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful–he that does this has nothing to hope for from God–except in self-defense, God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return.
Verse 3:85 inclusive by verse 3:83 Are they seeking a religion other than God’s, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion? To Him shall they return.
Say: “We believe in God and what is revealed to us; in that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, to Isaac and Jacob and the tribes; and in that which their Lord gave Moses and Jesus and the prophets. We discriminate against none of them. To Him we have surrendered ourselves.”
He that chooses a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will surely be among the losers.
Joe, If I am misinterpreting the above as out of context with the verses identified by Don in 2:191, 3:28, or 3:85, please ad your scriptural advice to where I am wayward in my opinion.
I have disagreement with many of Don’s other verses, but I know you will get my direction, (out of context), with those verses I have identified. Does your Qur’an reflect my stated verses?
EdwardS
EdwardS,
I agree: short conversations — especially in matters such as this — often go sideways. So thank you for answering.
OK, here is where we have to be careful. it is not enough to just quote the Qur’an. You must know the history of what was happening in Muhammad’s life at the time those passages of the Qur’an were given to him by Allah (through Gabriel). When you do that, you will find several things we need to understand.
1st, the Qur’an is missing large sections that have been lost. Even Muhammad’s youngest wife, Aisha, said that a goat ate one Surah (message from Allah). So we do not have the entire Qur’an.
2nd, the Qur’an is not in chronological order. It is composed from the longest book to the shortest.
3rd, this makes it easy to miss passages that have been abrogated. Muhammad set aside many of the earliest passages of the Qur’an, and these are the ones people most often point to as evidence that Islam is a peaceful religion.
4th, you cannot look ONLY to the Qur’an. you MUST look also to the Sunnah or Hadith — the sayings and customs of Muhammad. This is a command from Muhammad. Muhammad — as the perfect man — is the model for all Muslims (Allah commanded this). But you find very few of MUHAMMAD’S sayings and customs in the Qur’an. You have to go to the Hadith to find them, and once you do, then you find the ugly and violent side of Islam.
Finally, you have to go back to what was happening to Muhammad at the time he got his sayings from Gabriel. Once you do this, you will find that, when people mock Muhammad, it suddenly becomes lawful to kill mockers. And you can lie to do so, and even break treaties. When you are poor, it suddenly becomes lawful to raid your neighbor and to take booty in battle. If you want your adopted son’s wife, Allah suddenly commands your adopted son to divorce his wife so Muhammad can marry her. Muhammad’s life is filled with these self-serving sayings from Allah, but you must know his history to see the connections to the words in the Qur’an. Another such saying is the command not to argue with or disobey Muhammad.
Finally, you have to understand that, when Muhammad speaks of peace, he means between other Muslims. Otherwise, peace is when non-Muslims convert. According to Muhammad, Allah gave the whole world to Muslims, so jihad — to Muhammad — is a defensive war. They are only retaking what was taken from them in the past. According to Muhammad, jihad is doing good because it gives non-believers a chance to return to Islam.
So, once you understand all this, would you STILL think Don has taken Islam out of context?
See my post to Ed’s Comment.
Edward,
I also do not understand what you are getting at. I have studied the koran since 1980…..including from the Arabic ( with Help).
Here is a quote from your comment :
“…Verse 3:85 inclusive by verse 3:83 Are they seeking a religion other than God’s, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion? To Him shall they return.
Say: “We believe in God and what is revealed to us; in that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, to Isaac and Jacob and the tribes; and in that which their Lord gave Moses and Jesus and the prophets. We discriminate against none of them. To Him we have surrendered ourselves.”
He that chooses a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will surely be among the losers…..”
What about this passage negates the not only the Sentiment but more importantly the COMMAND of the last sentence ??? The last sentence is declarative and clear about what a True and good and devout muslim is to do and be. As indeed the first sentence is. One has to understand that God as used in this English translation is NOT the same as the God of the OT and NT. There are many passages which say this clearly. This association of the God of Christianity ( Judaism) with Allah is patently false.
mohammed was claimling and his entire cult since has claimed as the muslim’s today claim …. There is no OTHER god but allah…… and in this reference they were CLEAR in 660 AD just as they are today that THEIR allah is NOT the God of the Hebrews and followers of Christ.
Further your passage contains the ESSENCE of the mohameddans message. I’m wondering if you really READ s-l-o-w-l-y what you were cut and pasting ?? Here…. ”
“..when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion? To Him shall they return…”
“islam” means Submission !! What you are reading in this Verse you have quoted is the Willful SUBSUMMING of Judaism and Christianity within the assumed SUPERIOR “will of allah”…… are you aware of that ? This was its intention. And this IS what muslims believe and assume to be true. The verse is saying that in Heaven all the prior souls that have gotten their mind’s right with respect to the TRUE allah have RETURNED to HIM or shall return to HIM….once that submission is complete.
There is Gross gross misunderstanding in the West about what muslims really believe, what they are taught and what the koran really says. Because it mentions Jesus and Abraham etc the naive West assume that there is some copacetic equivalence relationship between Judeo-Christian beliefs and those of the Camel Trader. Nothing could be further from the Truth !!!
DonAmeche,
And everything you just posted is the reason I posted my piece about the many similarities between Islam and the Mormon religion. If you missed it, go to the oyl and read it (EdwardS, I urge you to do that, too).
Good. So we agree then on the deeper analysis
Because It isn’t just the occasional sentence here or there that advocates for violence and submission. It is in fact the entire text of the koran which instructs this. If people would just READ it carefully the message is clear from the first page.
“Interpretation” is the popular phrase and approach the West ( and the muslims using Taqiyyah) use when defending those passages calling for the death and maimimg of all non-muslims. When in fact it is rather..:
INTENTION that should be understood and read in this book….let it speak for itself.
Likewise “Out of Context” is the other catch-phrase thrown up in apology for this murderous guide-book some call “Holy”. When in fact it is… :
Historical and canonical Context that should be employed when understanding its Intention. Which you have quite brilliantly Posted in may Articles here ….and summerize in your comments above.
I will look at and Comment on the OYL.
Joe,
A short response to your post. I knew this would grow out of a “Brief comment,” but I appreciate your interest.
According to the information, (am going mental here), that I remember, Muhammad was an illiterate in the sense that he could not read or write Arabic and all the passages (Surahs) explained to him by Gabriel were passed on to educated Mullas who transcribed the messages to make up the Qur’an.
I have to dig up my “formal” Qur’an by Ali to get all the facts, but I recall that it was many years after the death of Muhammad that the messages of Gabriel were transcribed into six minor Books of The Sayings of Muhammad which were eventually compiled into the current Surahs of the Qur’an over a period of three hundred years.
It has been years since I was into the current Qur’an and now my main interest is in The Book, Bible, that I feel is more important and beneficial for me to understand at this time.
I would like you to understand that I am in NO WAY an apologist for Islam or the contents of the Qur’an.
Who would associate with a religion that formed an alliance with Adolf Hitler and the Nazis to exterminate the Jews of Europe? The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem fled to Berlin to direct the Nazi operation of transporting European Jews to the camps, with the personal protection of Hitler.
Will get into the cold facts of our discussion when I get out the notes and writings that I need to recall.
EdwardS
EdwardS,
Muhammad would get his visions and then tell his followers. Qur’an is an Arabic word for ‘recitation.” So the Qur’an is just the compilations of recitations given to Muhammad by Allah through Gabriel (note that I believe there was a real Muhammad and is a real Allah, and that Muhammad was visited by a spirit demon, but I believe it was a demon and not Gabriel, an Allah is most likely the “Prince who is to come” that the real Gabriel told Daniel would come to rule the last kingdom).
Now, you are correct, the first Qur’ans were not put together until some years after Muhammad had died. But they also lost a great deal of what was because so many of Muhammad’s original followers had died by then (mostly in battle). So much of the Qur’an died with them. Muhammad was illiterate, and whoever was around would copy his recitations onto whatever was handy at the time. It is reported these items included palm leaves, coconut shells and even animal bones. The point, however, is that much of the Qur’an has been lost and the oldest known Qur’ans differ a great deal. No god worthy of being the creator of the universe would allow this to happen to his word; he would protect it. So it would appear that Allah is not capable of protecting his word.
Finally, the Sunnah is a collection of Hadith, and Hadith is a saying and/or custom of Muhammad. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS THE QUR’AN! The Hadith are vast — many more pages than the Qur’an. There are many who compiled Hadith, but three main editors, if you will, who are accepted by all of Islam. I do not remember their names, just that one starts with a B, another with a Y and the last is Muslim (I remember his name). So the Hadith and Qur’an are different.
Now, when you study Islam, be careful. You should know that Muhammad commanded Muslims to lie and deceive in the furtherance of Islam, so you cannot always trust what you read from modern Islamic apologists. This would include most clerics. Just keep that in mind. 🙂
Joe and Don,
Thanks for all the interest and explanations that really do not answer my original thoughts of Don’s quotes regarding the “brief” listing of the Qur’an in his post.
I dutifully erred when I used my reference “pocket” Qur’an instead of the Abdullah Yusuf Ali “Qur’an Commentary and Text” version, which I should have used to identify actual readings of the Surah’s mentioned.
I have a very difficult time coming to an understanding of what I really should know about when I get too deep in this version, especially trying to decipher the “Comments.”
I have gained almost all of my understanding of Muhammad and Islam from the following excellent books which I highly recommend all to purview for a “layman’s” study of this cryptic religion.
My favorite author, whom I consider the best at explaining Islam is Bernard Lewis, who wrote “The Crisis of Islam,” “Islam, The Religion and The People,” and “Faith And Power.”
Other books I also recommend are: “Icon of Evil” by David G. Dalin and John F. Rothmann. “Virgins? What Virgins?” by Ibn Warraq. Do not discount the title, it is an in depth guide to understanding the Qur’an.
My last book by another of my favorite authors is: “The Foreigner’s Gift” by Fouad Ajami.
It has been a few years (?) since reading these excellent books, but now that my interest needs a break
from studying The Bible, I will be dutifully confined to house until I have read all.
Thanks again, for the lively discussion. You both have alerted me to the unfortunate loss of what I really need to know to keep my synapses functioning in my responses.
EdwardS
EdwardS,
Here in lies the problem, and it applies equally to Jews and Christians as to Muslims. When you go to books others have written about a religion as an authority on that religion, you make a mistake. The Authority is the religious writings of those who created the religion. In the case of Jews, that is the Tenahk; for Christians, it is the old and new testament; and for Muslims, it is the Qur’an, Hadith, official biography of Muhammad and the book Reliance or Guidance for the Traveler (translational issues cause differences in the English title). Commentary can be helpful, and books written by third parties can be as well, but there is no substitute for the original writings. So, in the matter at hand, this means you must go to the Qur’an and Hadith for the majority of your answers, Muhammad’s biography will put the Qur’an and Hadith in context (much of what they contain is revealed to be reaction and excuse/justification for what was going on in Muhammad’s life when he said them) and the Guidance for the Traveler, which is the source of Shari’a law. DO that and you will not find the religion of peace so many people claim Islam to be simply because MUHAMMAD said it is not. Anything else is to violate other commands Muhammad issued. He was very good at trapping his followers that way — something the Bible does not do.
Edward,
Here are my two PRIMARY texts for studying the mohamedan cult. Both were published in Pakistan and both have Arabic on one page and English on the opposite page.
(1) The Holy Qur’an English Translation by Maulana Muhammad Ali 6th Edition Ahmadiyyah Anjuman Isha’at Islam, Lahore Pakistan 1973.
( 2) A Manual of Hadith by Same author Translated. also The Ahmadiyya Anjuman Ishaat Islam, Lahore Pakistan. 2nd Edition…… no date given but after the 1973 edition above.
The author calls himslef a “soldier for the literary service of islam ” .
Hope that helps.
Joe and Don,
If I have a problem understanding and accepting the interpretation, English, Arabic, Hebrew or Greek of what I am reading, (as the Qur’an Commentary and Text by Abdullah Yusuf Ali), it is important to get other perspectives that are relative to understanding the content of the subject: Islam and Muhammad.
Why should I put more credence in your opinion than that of Bernard Lewis (worldly accepted authority on Islam), or Ibn Warraq? Quoting scripture (any) to fortify your opinion does not help me to accept your point.
As I stated above (if you fully understood the content of my posts), I am NO apologist for Islam or Muhammad.
I truly accept the opinion that our present world would be a much better place without Muhammad and Islam.
EdwardS
EdwardS,
I cannot speak for Don, and don’t. Nor am I trying to be hostile toward you. If I have given you that opinion, I apologize and ask your forgiveness. Truth be told, I actually respect you in as much as you are at least approaching this issue reasonably, and taking time to actually research it. This is far more than most people do.
HOWEVER, I must offer this caution. If a person thinks they can accept a third party’s opinion on a religion over that of the man who created it, then that person is not seeking the first religion, but that created by the third Party. This is why I urged you to consult the texts I listed: not because it is my ‘opinion’ as to the source of true Islam, but because they contain the most complete teachings of Muhammad. We must allow Muhammad to speak for Muhammad (and, in this case, Allah).
As for me, when I did this — let Muhammad speak for Muhammad — I quickly realized that what we are dealing with in Islam is a very well constructed cult. The evidence is strongest when we compare the events taking place in Muhammad’s life with the passages Allah hands down to him. For example, when Muhammad’s uncle rejects him as a prophet and refuses to follow him, suddenly Allah tells Muhammad to curse his uncle and his uncle’s wife (Qur’an 111:1-5). Or when Muhammad’s men raided the Quraysh caravan at Nakhla durring the time when fighting was prohibited, Muhammad is torn. He knows he should condemn his men, but he also wants and needs the money they took, as well as the motivation raiding would provide toward winning new converts. So, conveniently, Allah tells him that, while it was still a sin to kill during the forbidden month, cursing and slander against Muhammad is worse, so everything is suddenly OK with the raid (Qur’an 2:214).
Muhammad’s life is filled with these sort of examples: first something happens, THEN Allah makes it permissible. Anyone who tries to read the Qur’an and Hadith outside the context of Muhammad’s life is taking Islam entirely out of context (and you MUST read the Hadith with the Qur’an or you will have no idea how to do many of the things Muhammad commands). Once you do this, you have created a new religion. Incidentally, once you do that with Islam, Muhammad calls you a hypocrite/apostate and orders you to be killed.
Mohammed’s 6 yearold “wife” Aisha ( Ayesha) herself said to the Camel Trader’s face that it seemed allah came to mohammed very conveniently to render opinions in mohamedd’s favor.
Aisha also reported that Muhammad would talk to Gabriel (while he was in bed with her), yet she could not see Gabriel — nor hear him.
Edward,
I agree with you 100 % that the world would be a much better place WITHOUT muhammad and islam and thus without muslims who preach and practice the violence and hatred that muhammad and islam demand.
To follow up, you mentioned that my koranic quotes were “out of context” . And used the quotes ex passim around this example I gave…. Qur’an 3:85 “Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.”
What I am trying to show is that in fact the passages around this quote DO in fact support this quote. And “interpretation” has very little to nothing to do with it. For instance in the material you posted there is this passage…
.”… Say: “We believe in God and what is revealed to us; in that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, to Isaac and Jacob and the tribes; and in that which their Lord gave Moses and Jesus and the prophets. ”
He is using the tactic of Taqiyyah right here, by appearing to agree with those who are not muslim appearing to accept their beliefs as valid, but goes on to say in essence that islam is the only true religion and allah the only and GREATEST God !..
…He is telling them to SAY : We ( muslims) believe in Allah and in what is “revealed” to US ( muslims) FIRST…..then goes on to imply that ALLAH revealed truth to Abraham, Ismael, Issac Jacob and the Tribes…..THUS they claim to be the TRUE religion and by implication Judaism and Christianity have deviated from the “true” message of allah. Then he goes on to cleverly distinguish and emphasize the DIFFERENCE between the True believers (muslims) and the NON-believers ( Jews and Christians) by saying.. That which THEIR LORD “gave” Moses and Jesus.”
Do you see the difference between “revealed” and “gave”. One implies a revealed Truth the other does not. And the use of the term…”Their Lord” speaks volumes to muslims, as in clearly distinguishes BETWEEN “Allah” and “Their Lord”. Meaning that Their Lord is NOT the True God !! And that “Their Lord” is NOT the same as “allah”. There is no acceptance of Judaism and Christianity in these words At All. Just the opposite.
Which is what they mean at the very end … ” He that chooses a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will surely be among the losers…..” Which is the quote I chose to use !!
DonAmeche,
You seem to have arrived at the same conclusion as I. Now, if we take this discussion into the world of secular history and human psychology, things get even worse for Muhammad. I do not believe the same can be said about the many prophets in the Bible.
Absolutely.
muhammad :
Spiritually ….advocates theft, child rape, murder and annililation of all non-muslims… Fail.
Secular History…… invaded every single country and conflict with every single culture …. Fail.
Human psychology….manipulation and lies to even his own close associates ( see Aisha etc)… Fail.
Joe and Don,
As you both have probably noticed, that I do participate in discussions that allow me to read opinions and ponder over ideas and (stated) ideologies of posters. I am interested in other opinions on a particular subject that interests (or did interest) me.
However, I am convinced that (note my Feb 5, 2015 at 14:59 post) we have “discussed” Muhammad and Islam to the point that I am ending my participation on this subject. The past two days of my readings on the Muhammad/Islam theme, have again convinced me that I am waisting my time on a useless point of learning and have delved back into my favorite matter, Christianity and The Bible.
To validate my decision I would like to reference a statement from Joel Belz (Founder of World Magazine) from an article he wrote titled: “The Evidence We Want.”
“WHERE ON EARTH HAS THE ‘BEAUTIFUL RELIGION’ OF ISLAM CREATED ANYTHING LIKE AN ATTRACTIVE SOCIETY?”
GOOD QUESTION!
I commend Mr Belz on an excellent article (accepted opinion) that I wish could be read by every Muslim and all the fanatics of Islam.
EdwardS
Ed,
Thanks for that !!
It is the first I have heard of Joel Belz. And I concur about your assessment of the uselessness of learning anything meaningful from studying islam and its god muhammad.
I will look at Mr Belz’s work.
Best, Don
EdwardS,
As I have said before: I do not see where you and I disagree on anything in the way of fundamental principle regarding Islam. You have shown me that you seem to have a firm and correct understanding of the religion and — from this post — I suspect a firm and proper understanding of the Bible, too. So I believe I sense the reason you wish to depart from this conversation and I can only say that, if I am correct, I have an even deeper respect for you than I previously held. Thanks for your contribution 🙂
Joe
Edward,
Ditto what Joe has just “said”
Joe,
Here is piece which highlights a number of issues in one commentary….. The Myth of “White Privilege” , the Racism inherent in islam, and the Moral Bankruptcy of the Progressives and Leftists…..
http://www.infowars.com/muslim-rape-scandal-destroys-white-privilege-myth/