I’m Going to be Called a Racist for this One

When I saw this story:

‘The Butler’ Director: America ‘More Racist’ Since Obama Became President; ‘People Are Angry…Showing Their True Colors’

Lee Daniels, director and producer of the new film “The Butler,” lashed out on Monday’s Piers Morgan Live at Americans who are “angry that [Obama] is president” and who are “showing their true colors.”

I immediately thought of this one, which will be seen as ‘proof’ that the assertion in the first story is correct:

Republican lawmakers: LePage said Obama ‘hates white people’

But does this second story confirm that whites are ‘showing their true colors,’ or does it actually explain the problem because it is telling the truth?  Yes, I am suggesting that the perceived increase in racial tension in this nation might not be due to white racism finally showing its true colors, but because black racism is now in the White House and is seeking revenge against not only whites, but this nation, itself.

Now, why would I suggest that the real racism lies with Obama and the people in his administration?  Let’s count the reasons we could make this argument:

1 – If all whites were racist, the civil war wouldn’t have been fought, blacks would still be slaves and the Civil rights movement would have never happened, and if it had, it would have failed.

Historic Revisionism: If It Had Not Been For Whites, Blacks Might Still Be Slaves

2 – Obama, himself, has made racial slurs toward his own grandmother in his own books.

3 – Obama has called this nation a racist nation, and said that the Constitution should be used to make reparations on an institutional level – such as Obamacare and similar govt. programs (which are usually tailored to favor minorities).

4 – Obama directed Holder (another black) to dismiss the CONVICTION against the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation against whites.

5 – The Obama Administration refused to do anything about the NBPs posting a bounty for Zimmerman – dead or alive.

6 – Obama sided with Martin – the real aggressor in this case – and did so in a manner that was clearly motivated by race.

7 – Obama’s DOJ sent federal employees to advocate against Zimmerman and for Martin – before the trial was even held.  This was a racially motivated, govt. sponsored act of obstruction of justice.  THIS IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF RACISM and it was conducted by a black administration against a Hispanic who the Administration tried to deem white.

Now, we could go on, there are plenty of examples that, were Obama and his Administration white, would be called ‘proof of racism.’  But this doesn’t fit the narrative that only whites can be racist.  There is no political power to be gained by admitting that Obama is a racist, or admitting that he is at least equally culpable in the erosion of race relations.

So, in the end, the assertion in the first story could actually represents confirmation bias because there is plenty of objective reason to believe that the damage to race relations is the result of a racist BLACK President and his racist Administration.

[NOTE: I just covered the racial aspects of the assertion in the first story.  I didn’t even hit on the political reasons Americans might be angry with Obama — none of which have anything to do with the color of his skin but with his policies.  This is actually another mark in favor of viewing the assertion in the first story as confirmation bias and — possibly — a confirmation bias itself motivated by racism.]

100 thoughts on “I’m Going to be Called a Racist for this One

  1. Calling Trayvon the aggressor shows that you are prejudiced against reality. All Trayvon knew was that he was being stalked. Your desperte attempts to absolve Zimmerman of all blame only serves to show, if not racism, then prejudice against a class of persons.

    All of your allegations could stand some verification, as I am sure would be expected of any list that I posted.

    • Greg,

      I’ve gotten tired of your delusions. Yes, you are delusional — BY DEFINITION.

      FACT: Martin attacked Zimmerman — PERIOD! It doesn’t matter why, he was the one who attacked and THE GOVT.’s WITNESSES SAID SO! By definition — this is a fact, FACT.

      So, again, BY DEFINITION — when you refuse to accept this as a fact, you meet the definition of delusional. You are out of touch with objective reality.

      Now, in ALL seriousness: GET SOME HELP!

      • https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=1025 read it and weep

        And YOU are the one who is obsessed with race, not the government, YOU! Obama has no rage, he doesn’t hate his white half, and he isn’t a muslim. What he is, and what matters to you, is his Negro half. Prove me wrong, go a week without mentioning his color, his father, or his supposed ties to the Mother continent.

      • Here is another Crime committed by “Black Teens”……this time they beat an 89 year old WWII vet to death !

        http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/elderly-man-dies-after-being-attacked-outside-ice-arena/-/101214/21574858/-/9flm7iz/-/index.html

        We will hear the Fearful and Hypocrites Both say “Does it really matter what race the Perps and the Victim were ? ”

        The answer is YES…..It does matter….and in fact Obama has said so with his comments about the Zimmerman case….om 2 separate occasions ….. NBC told Us it matters…..Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have told us and Continue to tell us ……RACE MATTERS…….You betcha…..they’re right it does Matter………. Where is the Black WWII vet beaten to death by two white or hispanic “youths” ???

    • Sorry but, Even I think Trayvon was the aggressor. George Zimmerman had injuries on the back of his head. And if he was the aggressor he should have no injuries, he had a gun if he as aggressor would have shot first, Trayvon would not be able to hit back. Also he called the police. If you are being followed like Trayvon was, you just tell the neighborhood watch man that you’re walking through, you don’t respond by physically attacking the neighborhood watch man, as Trayvon did.

      • Greg,

        Karl’s comment “should” convince you that I am correct: you need some help. After all: if this person who call’s themself Karl — and who has demonstrated so consistently that they are out of touch with reality — yet they get the truth here, what does this say for you, Greg?

      • Karl, please red up on the case before you join the ignorant chorus! The Sanford police did not believe his injuries came from a head-bashing, for one.
        Zimmerman had tqo chances to identify himself to Trayvon, he chose not to. Trayvon had no idea who was stalking him

        https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=1025

        read the transcript, zimmerman contradicts your talking points

        • G – Will share this with you and the rest. When I was about 55 years old I was dating a woman with an 18 year old son. I’m 6.0 and weigh about 170. He was 6.3 and weighed about 160 or so. He was (is) a foul-mouthed, nasty individual who makes his living selling meth and prescription drugs in Marianna. He was high and had been calling his mother, who was at my house, about every 5 minutes and calling her every foul name imaginable demanding money. She would listen until it got to whore, cunt, etc., then she would hang up on him. To make a long story short he came to my house to “talk” with his mother and she was in the shower. I answered the door when he knocked (I have a steel inner-door and a screen door) leaving the screen door closed. He demanded to see his mother and I told him he wasn’t bringing all that disrespect and ugly name-calling to my house. He snatched the screen door open and reached in and grabbed at me calling me an old gray-haired bastard. Needless to say I went out the door on top of his ass. As we fell off the steps into the yard I wound up on the bottom with him sitting astride me, my upper torso (shoulders and head) laying on my concrete sidewalk. The dumbass hit me two or three times in the face, bouncing my head off the concrete side walk causing knots and small lacerations to the back of my head, one hell of a black eye, and a cut across the bridge of my nose. He broke the ring finger on his right hand when I hit his hand with my face. I got out from under him and he tried to get away. I got my arm around his neck and choked his ass until he couldn’t walk. His mother had come out of the house and called 911 in the meantime. The cops got to my house, cuffed us both, and the woman defended her son. He got a citation for trespass and was told he was lucky they didn’t charge him with burglary or that I didn’t just kill him when he tried to get in the house. The cop told the kid I was within every right to have done so. Needless to add, that was the end of my relationship with the woman.

          Point of the story – I can relate to Zimmerman’s position, I’ve been there with very similar results. If I had had my gun, I would have likely shot him to get off me. I clearly remember thinking; if I don’t get out from under this guy, he’s gonna kill me. And you know what the real irony is? I’m standing there in nothing but a pair of cotton shorts, having just gotten out of the shower myself, with blood running down my nose and my eye swelling, and the cops were skeptical of my story as well, threatening to take both of us to jail until they could get it all straightened out.

          • Trayvon was being stalked by a person who failed twice to identify himself, and they were having a shouting match as the fight broke out, so there was no surprise attack by Trayvon, . The prosecution’s auditory expert was not allowed to testify as to who was screaming, yet Zimmerman’s mom was!
            My take is that Z had his gun out already; the screaming was as they fought over it.
            Lawyers never ask each other if their client is guilty, they ask if he will put the client on the stand. If the answer is no, the lawyer believes his client is guilty. Zimmerman’s lawyer did not out Zimmerman on the stand.
            Even the jurors have spoken up, saying that they were prevented by the choice of charges from finding him guilty

            • The 911 tape of the screaming was analyzed to infinity and beyond by both the prosecution and the defense. In the end, an FBI auditory expert testified it was scientifically impossible to determine who was screaming on the tape. Trayvon’s mom, dad, brother, Jeantel, and everyone else on the prosecution side testified it was Trayvon screaming, just as everyone on the Zimmerman side; his mom, dad, and friends testified that it was George. No one knows and no one will ever know who it was.

              The two are standing there talking to or shouting at each other and suddenly one (apparently Martin) decided to knock the other one on his ass and that’s not a surprise attack? I don’t see a reason to believe Z had his gun already out. Why do you believe that?

              Two out of 6 jurors have spoken publically, one black lady apparently apologizing and the other seems to have a story to sell. No credibility. If either had felt strongly enough Z was guilty, they could have hung the jury. They didn’t. No one twisted their arms. In fact, the four other jurors released a statement saying “We also wish to point out that the opinions of Juror B37, expressed on the Anderson Cooper show were her own, and not in any way representative of the jurors listed below.”

              • Why do you believe a guy having his head bashed in has the sense left to do anything? , Especially draw a gun that is underneath him,with trayvon’s legs pinning him, making it even harder to get to his gun.
                Why isn’t trayvon allowed to stand his ground? Maybe his route home had been cut off by this silent stranger, and he felt threatened. Is Stand your ground only for white people?
                Was a paraffin test done on trayvon, or Zimmerman for that matter? That might have provided an answer as to whether or nor they were fighting over the gun or not.

                • I explained to you why I believe a guy having his head bashed in has the sense left to do anything. When you’re flat on your back and some nut is astride you throwing MMA punches in your face and you feel your head banging off concrete, you know you have to do something or die. I had sense enough to get out from under the guy, but if I had had my gun on me, I would have likely shot him to get him off. I was that afraid he was going to screw me up and pure fear gave me enough adrenalin to get up. Believe me when I say I could have gotten to my weapon.

                  Trayvon was allowed to stand his ground, no one here has argued that. What Trayvon wasn’t allowed to do (and evidence seems to indicate he did) is throw the first punch. Then it becomes self defense and Zimmerman’s right to defend himself. Again, we’ll never know for sure which one of them threw the first punch, but it appears Trayvon did.

                  Was a paraffin test done on Trayvon or Zimmerman? I don’t know. What would a paraffin test have told them, that both were in contact with the 9mm? We know that’s true. Zimmerman admitted to shooting Trayvon so I’m sure it was on his hands and clothes. The coroner’s report detailed the gun shot residue on Trayvon. Didn’t really prove anything.

      • about this Karl….you know that you and I rarely ( as in NEVER) agree on anything.

        But here we do. And I wanted to Publically acknowledge that.

    • The physical evidence and eye-witness testimony that Martin attacked Zimmerman and that Martin was attempting to seriously injure and possibly kill Zimmerman at the time Zimmerman was able to free his weapon and shoot Martin are incontrovertible by now. This is despite the media’s and the State prosecutor’s attempts to distort what happened on the night of the shooting. Zimmerman was stupid in following Martin, a larger, stronger and more experienced fighter, but Martin struck first, breaking Zimmerman’s nose and knocking the smaller man to the ground. Martin then straddled Zimmerman and began administering a “beat-down,” and began slamming Zimmerman’s head against the concrete sidewalk. As often happens in situations like this one, Zimmerman was initially able to resist the full force of Martin attack on his head by flexing his neck and shoulder muscles, reducing the effect of Martin’s attempts to crack his skull. Had Zimmerman not shot Martin, he would have tired in his resistance and likely suffered brain damage or death from Martin’s aggression. The other possibility is that Martin was the twelve-year-old choir boy depicted in the media and he was Trick-or-Treating rather than casing houses for future burglaries, but I think that unlikely. CDE

      • CDE,

        Sadly, judging from his insistence on counting Martin as the victim, it appears none of us are going to be able to convince Melfamy of the reality here. However, I do want to thank you. You just stated the facts in a clear and — for both of us — concise manner. I couldn’t have stated the case any better than you have. I just wish Melfamy could see it. 😦

        • Joe and Charles,

          With respect to your Post Joe…..and the director’s comments…”( people ) are showing their true colors “…..

          I would definitely say sincve Obama was elected……. Many African American’s have indeed shown their true, Racist colors. Holder as an Official version, Oprah as a Media Representative……but many, many average citizens as well.

          But……We stand forewarned of their True feelings……. which were hidden behind false civility prior.
          And Knowledge is power.

        • Sometimes it’s better to agree to disagree Joe/Greg.

          However, I will let you both know that I have had patient’s die shortly after receiving head trauma like this, with less visible wounds. Those wounds took some effort.

          In my opinion, Zimmerman is a very fortunate man in that regard.

          • Augger,

            Sorry, not on matters of objective fact — like this one. If we pussy-foot over something this concrete, then we are only serving the forces of social destruction.

            • It’s also not wise to pussy-foot over the second half of posts either, Joe. LOL!

              The second half of my post tells a story you should consider … deeply as it is in fact, a very strong statement.

              • Yes, I got that part of your post. But you and I both know that your preface will be taken by the Melfamy’s of this world as a concession to THEM — not to reason and reality 😉

            • Scrapes, cuts … aka, a wound … caused by some external force …

              Trauma at it’s very definition, my friend.

              • but not wounds consistent with a headbashing, as zimmerman claims.

                Tired, it’s over, no one wants to come off their pre-conceived notions, no one wants to look at the evidence available, no wants to question Zimmerman’s account….except me

                  • Augger, the adult on the scene, aka Zimmerman, did not act in a mature and rational manner. He ignored the advice of law enforcement, and he ran after a scared kid who had no idea what was going on.. He called Trayvon a punk twice during the 911 call. He wanted a confrontation, he did not want this ‘punk’ to get away.

                    • I think it may be time to recap what I was saying;

                      “However, I will let you both know that I have had patient’s die shortly after receiving head trauma like this, with less visible wounds. Those wounds took some effort. In my opinion, Zimmerman is a very fortunate man in that regard.” – Augs

                      No mention of a trial here. No mention of opinionated right or wrong. Just simply a statement about the type of trauma, and an opinion of how fortunate the receiver of the traumatic wounds to the head is.

                      “Zimmerman suffered no concussion, no head trauma, just scrapes.and cuts”

                      We are still on point here. An incorrect assertion, not based on empirical medical data of course, but still on point.

                      “Augger, the adult on the scene, aka Zimmerman, did not act in a mature and rational manner. He ignored the advice of law enforcement, and he ran after a scared kid who had no idea what was going on.. He called Trayvon a punk twice during the 911 call. He wanted a confrontation, he did not want this ‘punk’ to get away.?”

                      Ok, just so you understand … in medicine, we describe wounds with regard to their size, and their origins (i.e., Venous, Stasis, Pressure, Surgical, Traumatic …to name a few). We discuss things like the quantity, and quality of exudate, and what the wound beds look like, etc. etc. etc. What we do not discuss in terms of wounds is opine about who called whom what.

                    • OKay, how about this, then?
                      http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story

                      here’s the meat….

                      Photographs show that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and two lacerations to the back of his head — wounds that the prosecution has insisted are too minor to have come from a severe attack by Martin.

                      Dr. Valerie Rao, the Jacksonville, Fla., medical examiner for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, testified that she reviewed Zimmerman’s photographs and medical records. She was not involved in the autopsy of Martin.

                      The wounds displayed on Zimmerman’s head and face were “consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time,” she testified. “The injuries were not life-threatening,” she said, adding they were “very insignificant.”

                    • “Photographs show that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and two lacerations to the back of his head — wounds that the prosecution has insisted are too minor to have come from a severe attack by Martin.”

                      X-rays of the bloody nose? Other accounts describe a traumatic fracture of the nose. Lacerations, openly visible. I would have ordered a CT scan of the head during the ED visit, and would have asked the patient to follow up with a second in 2-3 days. Remember the skiers who’ve banged their head, felt fine, only to expire with a cerebral hemorrhage two days later? Neither of them had lacerations. 🙂

                      “The wounds displayed on Zimmerman’s head and face were “consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time,” she testified. “The injuries were not life-threatening,” she said, adding they were “very insignificant.””

                      The physician that rules out cancer always looks better in the patients mind than the physician who initially suspected it. She has privilege of hindsight. Understanding that, now go back and look at my perspective.

              • (CNN) — A medical report by George Zimmerman’s family doctor shows the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with a fractured nose, two black eyes and two lacerations on the back of the head after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin.

                The medical exam, which was taken a day after Zimmerman’s February 26 altercation with the unarmed 17-year-old, says Zimmerman suffered a “closed fracture” of his nose, according to two sources who have detailed knowledge of the investigation.

            • Well maybe so, but as I have stated … not everyone gets the luxury of being a Monday morning quarterback, or a Super 8 trained physician. 🙂

            • “However, I will let you both know that I have had patient’s die shortly after receiving head trauma like this, with less visible wounds. Those wounds took some effort. In my opinion, Zimmerman is a very fortunate man in that regard.”

              This is what I wrote. Do you understand the point of the opinion? You can turn to the specifics of the after-thought on Zimmerman’s initial injuries, but that’s not really debunking my medical opinion. The truth is in the statement … I have seen patient’s have poor outcomes over lesser degrees of visible head trauma, and Zimmerman is very fortunate his head injuries were more minor, than major.

              That’s the point. Not what some medical examiner opined days, weeks, months after Zimmerman’s medical outcome was history.

                • No always. No easy one single answer for that, but a bunch of factors can predispose bruising, ecchymosis, or hematomas … or lack of. Look up platelet aggregation or clotting factors for a start if your curious about hematology.

                  • augger – Here’s what I know from experience (as I tried to relate to G.).

                    Yes, it can be a one-strike, two (or even three) injury occurrence. If you’re on your back and get hit in the face, you’re going to suffer bruises (black eye), and/or cuts to your face. At the same time your head is going backward with great force and when it contacts concrete, your brain suffers “whiplash” inside your head as it comes to a sudden stop and reverses course. This leaves you stunned because your brain is rattling around inside your head like jello. From the contact with the concrete you get knots and lacerations on the back of your head. Yes, one strike to the face can cause multiple injuries when your head bounces off concrete. Multiply that by two, three, four strikes, etc., and you increase the chance of brain damage exponentially.

                    When the kid hit me in the face, three times I believe, I felt the shock on the back of my head more than I did my face, but I KNEW I was in trouble and had to do something to get him off me.

                    • Actually, my estimate was low. About 1.7 million cases per year.

                      “TBI is a contributing factor to a third (30.5%) of all injury-related deaths in the United States. About 75% of TBIs that occur each year are concussions or other forms of mild TBI.”

                      As I said. Fairly prevalent in Emergency Rooms, so no, I am not attempted to draw from anything uncommon to justify anything extraordinary surrounding Zimmerman. Fact of medicine today.

                      http://www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjury/statistics.html

                    • But how many are unaccompanied by bruising, or otherwise look far less serious than they tun out to be? Sorry, my original question was poorly written, and I am just asking for a guess based on your experience.

                    • Gosh man, I have no idea. So many come in with no visible signs of trauma. It’s sort of like Texas said. It can be more about a bleed underneath the skull, than what you see outside the skull. That’s where the trauma guide comes in handy. Like anything else, you must assume the worst, and work backwards from there.

                    • Over the weekend, if you are still interested, I will try to dig much deeper to parse out more statistics. The CDC is where we are mandated to report, so I am sure the data is there if the CDC reports those specifics. Just make take us some time to sort through all their reports to parse out what we need.

                    • The appearance of a wound vis a vis its severity would seem rather subjective, and not lending itself to easy quantification. Maybe the number of re-admits of head trauma victims would give an idea.

                    • I just thought of this about two sips into my first cuppa java…

                      People ask why didn’t Trayvon just run on home, instead of confronting Zimmerman?
                      Maybe Trayvon didn’t want this mysterious stranger, whose intentions were unknown, to know where he was staying!
                      Does that make sense? Calling 911 himself would have been good, too, but he was a kid, unsure if he was really in danger at first.

                    • And just incase you are interested in further learning, here is but one example of head trauma protocol. There’s a lot more to this type of assessment than you would imagine.

                      Incase the image does not show …

                • Greg,

                  If you REALLY cared about racism, you would be screaming about the shooting of that white Australian baseball player. THAT was racially motivated, but because it was black-on-white and does not help the race-baiters, the media is trying to bury this fact.

                  Isaiah 5:20-21:
                  When we make things into what they are not, we turn the world on its head and society collapses. Are you going to be a part of this?

                    • “Joe, that was a mixed-race gang of slimeballs, why don’t you sit this one out?”

                      Oh, I think the digital footprint left behind by one of those animals is quite telling, Greg. Careful not to overlook or soft-peddle that one.

                • No, not really. Closed head injuries are common place in the ED. Most outcomes are good, but many not so much. The point is, you can’t really tell until either symptoms overwhelm the patient, or until proper diagnostics are performed.

            • Dr. Valerie Rao, the Jacksonville, Fla., medical examiner for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, testified that she reviewed Zimmerman’s photographs and medical records. She was not involved in the autopsy of Martin.
              The wounds displayed on Zimmerman’s head and face were “consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time,” she testified. “The injuries were not life-threatening,” she said, adding they were “very insignificant.” (your source)

              Z’s doctor’s report wasn’t “my opinion”. it was the opinion of a licensed healthcare professional in an interview by CNN. I don’t believe Z’s doctor ever said they were life-threatening or “very significant”, but he did report what he saw. On the other hand Dr. Valerie Rao never saw Z’s injuries. She saw photographs and medical records.

        • Joe: I’ve been developing a post on the application of Engels’ theory of “false consciousness” to Liberal/Progressivism’s ideological view of the world and hopefully I will soon figure out how to post it. Basically, many good people like Greg, and many not-so-good people like Barack Obama, Eric Holder and the Lib/Progs generally, believe that by denying reality and claiming objective facts are actually “subjective,” they can make things they find painful go away. I saw it when I taught Russians and East Germans finance after the collapse of the Soviet Union and I’ve seen it with my Lib/Prog academic colleagues who deny government statistics about the failure of Socialist economic and social policies. In one of my favorite quotations from Jesus of Nazareth, he warned his disciples, “Do not cast your pearls before swine,” which I’ve come to interpret as sometimes we need to walk away and let our friends wallow in their misperceptions. CDE.

          • I am going by Zimmerman’s own words, CDE, Please explain how using Zimmerman’s own words, and those of two experienced police detectives, is denying reality? How is Trayvon’s suspension from school deemed pertinent, but Z using the word punks twice in reference to Trayvon before the shooting (911 call) not so big a deal? Why didn’t Z just tell Trayvon who he was? Why will no one answer these questions?

            • Greg: According to the information which the Martin-friendly judge refused to admit at trial, Martin was an experienced burglar, with a history of drugs and violence that had been covered-up by various authorities, including his high school principal. Whether he had actual gang involvement or not, Martin was at least a gangster wannabe, and he dressed the part, with the hoodie concealing his face, the low-slung jeans, etc. In other words, Zimmerman’s description of Martin as a “punk” was probably accurate and I sometimes use the word to describe young men of a similar appearance. Meanwhile, Zimmerman was, and is, a fat, out-of-shape little guy, probably with no street-fighting experience…a wannabe cop who was quickly way over his head when the physical confrontation started. Based on the physical evidence and eye and ear witness testimony, I find it impossible to conclude anything other than that Martin was the aggressor who was in control of what happened from the moment he sucker-punched Zimmerman, breaking his nose and knocking Zimmerman to the ground, until the terrified Zimmerman managed to free his weapon and shoot Martin. I’ve outlined what I think happened elsewhere, so I’ll just say here that as a successful boxer and street-fighter in my distant, miss-spent youth, I’ve seen and experienced what happened that night, up to and excluding the shooting. Martin broke Zimmerman’s nose, dropped him on his butt, straddled Zimmerman and probably struck him two to four times on the face and head. At that point Zimmerman was subdued and Martin should have walked away. Zimmerman would not have followed. Martin did not walk away, but rather began pounding Zimmerman’s head against the pavement, creating the wounds seen at the trial in photos. Zimmerman resisted at first, but probably realized there would be a limit to how long he could continue to resist, at which point he managed to draw his weapon and shoot his attacker. While your questions about Zimmerman’s behavior are reasonable, the only one who can speak to Z’s state of mind is Z. For me, the physical and witness testimony support the scenario I just laid out. I haven’t heard an alternative that hangs together on close examination. You are certainly entitled to your views, but I don’t see that the known facts support them. Cheers, CDE

              • You assume a lot, and Trayvon’s dress was addressed by the cops during their interview. The gist was, a real burglar would wear all black, Trayvon wore gray hoodie ,blue jeans,and pair of white shoes. The detective pointed out that Zimmerman, as Neighborhood watch captain, should have seen that in a vdeo presentation that was shown to the association.
                Zimmerman had been going to a gym fora year, and had lost 50-6-lbs, he had some boxing training. The gym’s owner says that, after a year of training, Zimmerman was in poor physical shape, couldn’t throw a punch. That is hard to believe, and really hard to believe a gym owner would admit to such a thing, as he shown as a failure.
                But that matters as little as Trayvon’s juvenile record.

                As far as drawing the gun while feending himself, I see problems as well, seeing as how Trayvon is straddling the body of zimmerman. But say he does, say all the screaming wasn’t because they were struggling over the gun. A gun pressed into the belly of the kid would have backed him off, I wager.
                As for a sucker punch, Zimmerman claims that Trayvon came from behind him. So how could they have this interchange,…

                Why are you following me?–Trayvon
                What are you doing here?–Zimmerman

                Zimmerman refused to ID himself, TWICE!, that would have ended the altercation before it got started. But Z wanted to make sure this ‘punk’ did not get away.

      • Zimmerman weighed 200 pounds, trayvon weighed 158. https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=1025

        read in zimmerman’s own words, how he failed to ID himself read how he cops don’t believe the head-bashing story.

        A head-bashing is a head-bashing, it either happened or it didn’t,or is the truth as much a moveable feast to you as it is to the rest of this crowd?

  2. Didn’t Rachel Jeantel or Jenteal (?) say on Piers Morgans interview that Trayvon was …. I had to look it up , she said,”: “They don’t understand, they understand, ‘Oh, he would just bash, or was kill.’ When somebody bash somebody, like, blood people, trust me, in the area I live, that’s not bashing. That’s just called ‘whoop ass.’ You just got your ass whooped. That’s what it is.”
    So Zimmerman “misunderstood the whoopass” he was gettin . Sounds like Trayvon WAS the aggressor in her mind.
    (also Homophobic , but no one will mention that, either. “thought” he was Gay)

  3. If all the “under the table” remarks OWEbozo is claimed to have made, both anti-white and anti-American, can ever be certified, he needs to have ALL records of him ever being POTUS removed. Of course it will never happen because even accusing him of anything improper is racist.

  4. Funny how Utah’s post ended up rehashing the Martin/Zimmerman fiasco, but if we were not all so determined to deny our own prejudice, we might be more likely to give the President or any other American a pass. It is a part of our history and will not disappear until it is no longer passed to successive generations.

    Dead men tell no tales.

    • Sorry, Steve, but Obama has done things that are racist and — were he white — would have been attacked by the “main stream” as racist. Prejudices aside, this is an argument that could be made by a flaming racist on any side, so it is reasonably easy to declare it a fact.

  5. If Martin had been serving his time for burglary he would be alive today. The school thought it better to just pass him along and get better crime statistics. Political correctness kills.

    • Chhelo,

      Immaterial/irrelevant to the issue at hand: who was the aggressor.

      Not trying to be argumentative toward anyone, but to bring this up is on par with the argument that Zimmerman should not have confronted Martin. The fact is, both had a right to be where they were. Both had a right to confront each other. But when one physically attacked the other, THAT was the point where the line was crossed and the person who crossed that line was Martin.

      • Joe, I agree with your admonishment of Chhelo but you still insist that Zimmerman had a right to not only be on the street, but to act as he did.

        I am about ready to shoot myself, because I have been bashing my head against the proverbial brick wall so long. 🙂

        The Sanford Police initially released George Zimmerman based upon the misapplication of SYG. Once their error was uncovered, many (both black and white) jumped on the bandwagon right along with Jesse and Al. They both know how to fire up a crowd, and have made a very good living doing it. However, that does not excuse the negligence of both the police and GZ.

        The police chief was fired, GZ was acquitted of any wrong doing, and a young man is dead for no reason other than GZ wanted to play cops and robbers. Problem is, GZ was not a cop, and TM was not robbing anyone. Justice served? I think not.

        I was in a local store a couple of weeks ago when I observed three “Mexicans”. I had a pretty good idea where they worked and lived, and I had doubts about their right to work in this country. I am tired of them coming here illegally and taking American jobs, so what if I had followed them out of the store and questioned them? What if they were unresponsive, so I told them I was calling the cops and that they needed to stay put? They must have understood English, because they got scared, but before running for it, they attacked me. They knocked me to the ground and started kicking the crap out of me. Brutal kicks to the head as well as the torso. They were really amped up, and I thought to myself that these are the bad ass MFers I hear about, so I pulled my gun and started shooting. I kill all three men.

        Remember, they were not breaking any law except the one I suspected them of, and there was no immediate threat to anyone. I was pretty sure where they worked and lived. As I SUSPECTED they were in this country illegally, did they have a right to be there? Would I have been justified in asking their immigration status and then shooting them once attacked?

        • Steve,

          Sorry, but Martin is dead because he attacked someone — PERIOD!

          Now, if you agree with my admonishment of Chhelo and then think you hold some special dispensation, you are wrong — especially since you are arguing FOR something I just told Chhelo his comment was equal to and to which YOU AGREED! You do not get to have your cake and eat it too – not around me.

          Zimmerman DID have a right to be where he was — and so did Martin.

          Zimmerman DOES have a right to protect the property where he lives (don’t ‘libertarians’ agree to this?).

          Zimmerman DID have a right to confront Martin, as Martin had a right to ask Zimmerman what the hell he was doing.

          But Martin — no matter what else happened — DID NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO ATTACK FIRST! PERIOD!

          And all those who keep spinning tales about how Zimmerman attacked first are doing so without ANY evidence and in the face of the PROSECUTIONS WITNESSES TESTIFYING THAT MARTIN WAS THE ATTACKER!

          At that point, those who keep insisting someone pay need to understand and accept that the person who caused this — REALLY caused it — DID pay, with his life. Any other attempt to force this back on Zimmerman is an extension of this society’s inability to accept and hold people accountable for their actions. And before you start in again with Zimmerman’s actions, I will say it one last time: MARTIN WAS THE ATTACKER!

          This ends it — for rational people. All the rest are out of touch with reality (and the facts as we can prove them)

        • Steve: As it turns out, the Sanford Police and their fired Chief had it right from the beginning in that there was no legitimate case against Mr. Zimmerman…he should never have been arrested, indicted or brought to trial. Our Dear Leader and Eric Holder did their best to exercise what in the military is called “Undue Command Influence,” by making unfortunate comments about the case, and the Justice Department paid people to go to Florida and stir up racial discord over Martin’s death. The Florida AG replaced the local prosecutor with an All-Star team from the state prosecutor’s office and the American media embarrassed itself again by inventing a new ethnic category for Zimmerman, proclaiming him a “Light-skinned Hispanic,” a term I’ve never seen on the many ridiculous Federal, state, local and private forms we’ve all been filling out for years to help America move past its “racist” history, or so the Liberal/Progressives tell us. With all these attempts to manipulate George Zimmerman’s trial, it took a jury of average Americans about 15-minutes to see through the Black-racist crap that tumbled south from the Obama White House and declare Zimmerman “Not Guilty,” as every fair-minded American who had watched the trial knew him to be. Guess the Sanford cops and their Chief were right to start with, wouldn’t you say?

          On your thought experiment, you raise some interesting issues, but loose your point in trying to draw conclusions that cannot be derived from your fact pattern. I’ll make this a bit more personal, since I was attacked in a store parking lot by two thugs that I caught trying to steal my 12-year-old VW about 20-years ago. One tried to sucker punch me with a wrench he was using to break into my decrepit but beloved vehicle, and I slipped his blow and dropped him on his butt. I turned to help educate the other lad, but he decided to take off running and I sat on the first one until someone flagged down a police car, who arrested the second based on my description of their car. The cops took two shotguns, a machete and a handgun out of their trunk and quickly discovered both had long records for assault, battery and assorted other crimes. When the two choirboys tried to break into my VW, they gave me the right to defend and protect my property, but not to use unreasonable force. When they attacked me with a weapon, a large adjustable wrench, I acquired the right to protect myself since I had reasonable grounds for thinking my life and physical safety were at risk. I did not apply deadly force, although the idea did enter my mind for a moment, and had the second character chosen to engage me simultaneously with the first I could have reasonably utilized force sufficient force to disable both, without necessarily being able to calibrate my response to avoid permanent injury to one or both of my fellow citizens.

          The right to defend one’s life and possessions is a basic American and human right, and based on the physical evidence and corroborating testimony of eye-witnesses, it is clear to me that Zimmerman, a flabby, overweight, neighborhood watch volunteer, was in a completely vulnerable position when he chose to take out his weapon and shoot Martin. Martin was in control of the altercation and was choosing to pound Zimmerman’s head against the concrete sidewalk in a manner that would have escalated as Zimmerman’s physical ability to resist at all was dissipated by fatigue. Does anyone really think that a brain-damaged Zimmerman would have received the national attention that his aggressor has and continues to receive? Zimmerman drew his gun and fired because he believed, with good reason, that his life and well-being hung in the balance. Martin’s race was and is immaterial to what happened. Everything prior to Martin’s attack on Zimmerman was immaterial to the case. As Americans we are permitted to defend our lives against physical attacks by any aggressor, regardless of race, religion, color, sexual orientation or other “protected class” on the part of our assailant. That’s what George Zimmerman did, and as an American citizen he was entitled to do so…next question?

          • All Star team? The Governor sent several suits full of fools who still could have won, had the judge allowed their auditory witness to testify..
            Maybe you don’t read much, but two jurors have come forward to say that they wanted to find Z guilty, but the instructions from the judge left them little choice. It was not a slam dunk; had you done any research at all, you would know that.
            The Sanford detectives don’t believe that there was any head-bashing going on, or didn’t you read Zimmerman’s interview with Serino and Singleton?
            Zimmerman had been going to a gym for a year, and had lost upwards of 50 pounds in that time. I doubt that he was as weak and out of shape as the defense wanted us to believe. The gym owner, the source of that meme, and the ‘can’t throw a punch meme,is a real piece of work, under indictment on a whole cartload of nasty charges,
            A poke in the ribs gets one’s attention, Zimmerman did not need to fire his weapon, just press it into Trayvon’s belly. But Zimmerman wanted this punk, “they all get away”, he said on the 911 call. Not this time.
            “Everything prior to Martin’s attack is immaterial.”…all we have is Zimmerman’s word that Martin attacked him, you, CDE, seem to take his word as Gospel, I do not.

            • Greg…You are drifting into fairly insulting personal attacks here, which I don’t think you particularly intend to do and which don’t particularly bother me, but they do demean your arguments, such as they are. I’ll give you one more response, although we both know at this point your mind has assumed a defensive posture that is preventing the admission of the multitude of information and logic that contradicts your position.

              We both know the idea that I haven’t read much on the Zimmerman show trial is silly on its face. The facts, both physical and eye witness-based, support the position that however the altercation began (which is a non-material and inaccessible fact), at the time Zimmerman shot Martin, Martin was in total control of Zimmerman, had broken his nose and was trying to further injure or kill him by pounding Zimmerman’s head onto a concrete surface. To take a page from your book, haven’t you heard the eye-witness testimony that confirms Zimmerman’s account of the head-pounding part of the incident or seen the photo’s of the lacerations on the back of Zimmerman’s head? Zimmerman had no legal obligation to delay his response to Martin’s pounding until he (Zimmerman) began to experience the early stages of a concussion or brain damage. He had the right (Natural or Constitutional, take your pick) to defend himself by the only means he had reasonable expectations would prove efficacious, his weapon, and Martin’s controlling position sitting on Zimmerman’s chest, made it impossible for Zimmerman to aim the weapon before Martin could have grabbed it from his grasp.

              As to whether the special set of lawyers brought in by the AG were competent or a “Dream Team,” that was clearly the AG’s intent. He was trying increase the likelihood of Zimmerman’s conviction of a non-existent crime by replacing the local yocals with more experienced prosecutors from Tallahassee. Why did they AG commit such an egregious action? Pressure from Eric Holder, Our Dear Leader and the media is an obvious answer, but as we all know, individual motivation is always ultimately inaccessible.

              As to Zimmerman’s physical conditioning or fighting prowess, whatever he had been doing had not made him into a physical specimen or an experienced street fighter. The fact that he allowed Martin to sucker-punch him and break his nose is evidence enough, but further evidence is that he did not know enough to take the punch and to avoid falling flat on his back, which allowed Martin to quickly gain complete control of the situation. As someone whose personal circumstances required me to develop fighting skills and the ability to quickly size up opponents during my teenage years, the first time I saw Zimmerman on TV I knew he was not and would never be a successful street fighter. Zimmerman was and is a fat little guy with fear in his eyes and a build that might be improved but will never be battle-hardened. He should never have followed Martin, since he broke my father and grandfather’s cardinal rule of “Never start a fight you can’t finish.” Had he not shot Martin, Zimmerman would likely be dead or brain-damaged today, in what would certainly have been a non-event for the American media.

              Such are my final comments in this thread. Greg, I suggest we agree to disagree, unless you have some actual facts you have not advanced thus far. Regards, CDE

              • You are ignoring experts who say that Zimmerman’s head wounds were not that serious, and not the result of a pounding motion. One more thing, look at the pics of Trayvon’s body at the scene, there is no sidewalk nearby. hmmmm…..
                I agree that you disagree, but, your physical prowess notwithstanding, are not considering all the facts, nor are you giving any thought to Zimmerman’s honesty or lack of it. Good day.

                • Having agreed to disagree, I’ll provide one more clarification. Z’s head was struck on something hard, as one doesn’t develop lacerations like his from a grassy surface. Second, the head-pounding, which his male neighbor reporting seeing from a distance, was not completed but rather was still at a stage where Z was resisting, likely by flexing his neck and shoulders. The wounds were early stage wounds, but had the pounding continued Z would likely have tired and Martin could have pounded Z’s head on the ground until he got bored and sought other entertainment. As to my physical prowess, my former adventures are now memories of a distant and often embroidered past. By next year my mugging story will likely include a dozen SEALS with automatic weapons. Greg, I always enjoy our exchanges and accept the reality we will sometimes reach impasse. I think we’ve arrived at one of those points. Regards, CDE

                  • CDE,

                    I see you have discovered why I call Greg “willfully ignorant.”

                    You can’t help people like this because they “know” things that simply aren’t so (I think I just stole that from Reagan).

                    🙂

          • I cannot get anyone to address my main point (Zimmerman’s negligence).

            The Sanford Police initially released George Zimmerman based upon the misapplication of SYG. Once their error was uncovered, many (both black and white) jumped on the bandwagon right along with Jesse and Al. They both know how to fire up a crowd, and have made a very good living doing it. However, that does not excuse the negligence of both the police and GZ.

            The police chief was fired, GZ was acquitted of any wrong doing, and a young man is dead for no reason other than GZ wanted to play cops and robbers. Problem is, GZ was not a cop, and TM was not robbing anyone. Justice served? I think not.

            I was in a local store a couple of weeks ago when I observed three “Mexicans”. I had a pretty good idea where they worked and lived, and I had doubts about their right to work in this country. I am tired of them coming here illegally and taking American jobs, so what if I had followed them out of the store and questioned them? What if they were unresponsive, so I told them I was calling the cops and that they needed to stay put? They must have understood English, because they got scared, but before running for it, they attacked me. They knocked me to the ground and started kicking the crap out of me. Brutal kicks to the head as well as the torso. They were really amped up, and I thought to myself that these are the bad ass MFers I hear about, so I pulled my gun and started shooting. I kill all three men.

            Remember, they were not breaking any law except the one I suspected them of, and there was no immediate threat to anyone. I was pretty sure where they worked and lived. As I SUSPECTED they were in this country illegally, did they have a right to be there? Would I have been justified in asking their immigration status and then shooting them once attacked?

            • I can’t believe that you and “numb-nuts” continue to side with the AGGRESSOR in this case.
              “young man is dead for no reason other than GZ wanted to play cops and robbers.”
              Martin is dead because he ATTACKED someone that legally had a right to do whatever was necessary to defend himself and keep the aggressor from killing him.
              “TM was not robbing anyone. ”
              You are absolutely correct that TM had not robbed GZ, however had GZ not defended himself, who is to say that TM wouldn’t have taken everything he could from him. He had a history of thievery so he may very well have robbed GZ.

              Unlike greg, I don’t claim to know EVERYTHING there is to know about EVERYTHING but I will give you my interpretation of the case in question. As to your scenario with the Mexicans:
              1. “what if I followed them out of the store and questioned them?”
              In my opinion you have every right to do this as long as you don’t touch one of them or do anything like spit on them. They also have the right to ignore you and continue doing whatever they were doing as long as it is legal and not AGGRESSIVE to you.
              2. “what if they were unresponsive, and I told them I was calling the cops and they needed to stay put?”
              see #1…….. and you could call the cops anytime you wanted to do so just like they could have done also.
              3. “they attacked me.”
              Now we have a problem. As soon as either party gets aggressive we have opened a new door and things are different.
              4. “I kill all three men.”
              If you were in fear for your life and they were the aggressors, you have every right to do whatever it takes to keep them from killing you.
              5. “they were not breaking any law.”
              I believe that they were breaking the law big time if they attacked you and were beating your ass to the point that you feared for your life.
              6. “did they have a right to be there?”
              If they were illegal immigrants they didn’t have any right to be anywhere inside the USA boundaries. However, their breaking the immigration laws gave you ZERO right to do anything unless you were a policeman of some kind, other than calling a lawman into the mix.
              7.”Would I have been justified in asking their immigration status and then shooting them once attacked?”
              I suppose you could ask them for their documents just like I suppose they could IGNORE you if they wanted to do so. If they attack you because you asked them something and then beat you to the point you feared for your life………..I suppose you could do WHATEVER it took to save your life and as long as you were legally armed that would include shooting every one of the attackers.

              Some differences between your scenario and the Zimmerman/Martin case:
              1. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watchman. He was doing what he had VOLUNTEERED to do in his neighborhood. I am one also and I have confronted several people to ask what they are doing inside the boundaries of our HOA, and which member had given them permission to be there. If they were to get aggressive, which none ever have, I would call the local deputy that has given me his contact info and ask him to come and take care of business.
              2. You described several facts in you scenario that we don’t have undeniable proof to in the Zimmerman/Martin case. Just because greg says that “this, that and the other thing” happened in Sanford that night doesn’t make it facts.

              I have a couple questions for all the people defending Martin…………….. What if it was your son that was in Zimmerman’s shoes that night? Would you have expected him to allow someone to beat him to death?

              • “However, their breaking the immigration laws gave you ZERO right to do anything unless you were a policeman of some kind, other than calling a lawman into the mix.”

                Bingo! Yet TM had not broken any laws. GZ was merely suspicious (for whatever reason). His role should have ended with a phone call to the police. If he desired to maintain surveillance, perhaps he should have been trained to do it in a discreet manner.

                • “TM had not broken any laws. ”
                  How do you know TM hadn’t broken any laws?
                  How was GZ to know TM hadn’t broken any laws?
                  “GZ was merely suspicious ”
                  GZ was a neighborhood watchman…………… he was supposed to look out for any activity inside the neighborhood that was suspicious. If he thought TM being there was suspicious, he had a right to stop him and ask what he was doing there and who he was visiting. It was stated that is what happened, and then TM ran away and the returned to attack GZ. If that is what happened and Martin ATTACKED HIM, he had every right to defend himself to whatever level was required to remain alive.

                  Put yourself in GZ’s shoes.
                  You see someone in your neighborhood that you think might be up to no good.
                  Since you are a “neighborhood watchman”, you confront the person, not attack, simply confront.
                  The person attacks you and you fear that he is trying to kill you.
                  I don’t think your first instinct at this point is going to be to call the police.
                  We obviously (except numb-nuts) don’t know what happened at this point.
                  I heard that GZ was attempting to stop the attack by drawing his LEGALLY carried weapon, and he said TM was trying to take it from him.
                  Unfortunately for both of them the scenario played out to one getting killed and the other spending the rest of his life hiding from possible racist murderers.

                  Had I been GZ and since it was night-time and I didn’t know whether TM was carrying or crazy, I THINK I would have called my local police force and then stayed in my truck following TM until the cops arrived. I wasn’t there and can’t say for 100% positive that I wouldn’t have done something else including all the way to what actually happened.

                • “However, their breaking the immigration laws gave you ZERO right to do anything unless you were a policeman of some kind, other than calling a lawman into the mix.”

                  “Bingo!”
                  No bingo, sorry. The difference between you peacefully confronting the Mexicans and GZ peacefully confronting TM was that he was a NEIGHBORHOOD WATCHMAN, just like I am. He & I are not policemen, but we are allowed by the local police to PEACEFULLY confront suspicious people within our areas and notify the law if we aren’t satisfied with how the confrontation results.

                  • Dusty,

                    he didn’t need to be a neighborhood watchman to have a right to ask someone what they were doing. That right is inherent in his right to be on that property, which he had as a renter/resident.

                    People are doing all sorts of back flips here because they simply do not understand rights.

            • Steve,

              Maybe no one is addressing it because you are trying to force the argument onto grounds that do not apply. SYG is NOT the issue here: self-defense is. And in this, Zimmerman was not ‘negligent.’

              You and Greg are just trying to force the blame in this case onto Zimmerman, and it is strange how the only factor of ‘absolution’ here seems to be Martin’s skin color. HINT: THAT is racism.

  6. “no one saw the fight start, yell all you want.”

    I don’t think anybody seeing the fight start is relevant. The link goes on to confirm part of the GZ story as well, so really, you can twist those statements to fit either narrative.

    “What makes Martin the attacker? Why can’t he be scared for his life, being stalked by a silent stranger.”

    What makes GZ the attacker? Was Trayvon stalked? Was he scared for his life? These complex questions beg the same questions conversely, and do no justice to either set of questions.

    “We only have Z’s word as to how it went down, and his story stinks to high heaven, which is why he wasn’t put on the stand, because defense lawyers never let a guilty man testify.”

    Ehh, I don’t know about that. I think that statement assumes a little too much. For something so uncertain, I find it a little too convenient that we can only assume that one particular conclusion. Begging the question, again. There could have been a number of reasons why the defense didn’t put GZ on the stand. It is ludicrous to assume this is the only possible explanation without further deduction into their reasoning. I don’t know any more about it than you do, but its just too bold to say that this is precisely the case.

  7. Libercrite, it may have gone down as Zimmerman claimed, but he set up the confrontation by not identifying himself when he had the chance, two chances, in fact.
    There is also this to consider; maybe Trayvon did not run home because he did not want this weirdo knowing where he lived. That makes sense to me, does it to you?

    When you get time check these guys out, good driving music

  8. I believe that Obama does not care about the white vs. black debate, he is a puppet nevertheless as all presidents. Most rich black men could careless about the ghetto and welfare blacks, they just do the talk in order to gain money (Sharpton). The increase in black on white racism, is just part of the agenda to destabilize society as a whole. This causes a diversion and unnecessary hatred toward each other. In the end, the unaware and the unprotected will suffer. If you leap to this you will become part of the mess, the best thing is to stay out of it. The elites see the masses as a herd of animals that are easily manipulated, now why would you want that to come true? Let’s not give them the benefit. So you can either join the mass collective of mindless drones in this artificial war, or you can be smart and make choices accordingly to get something out of it. The elites have chosen the second option.

    • Gemini,

      I was with you — right up to the point where you say the best way to deal with this issue is to stay out of it. I DISAGREE IN THE STRONGEST WAY! Staying out of it is how we got to this point. It is the proverbial “good men staying silent” that allows this evil to flourish.

      I prefer to do something about it, and what I am trying to do is to not only make people aware that there are people behind the scenes trying to cause discord — as you point out — but why and how they do it. Perhaps you should read my posts on the OYL?

      Oh, and one more thing: if you listen to Obama BEFORE he became a State Senator, he made it VERY clear that he is concerned with racial issues. In fact, he is consumed by it. This is partially explained in D’Souza’s book, “The Roots of Obama’s Rage.” Add that to his anti-colonialist, cultural Marxist teachings and you will find nearly everything this man does and says is motivated by something connected to race.

    • Gemma…Much of what you’re saying assumes a conspiratorial view of American society that I’ve heard versions of before, and there are certainly enough funky things going on to support this perspective. Given conspiracies generally conceal rational behavior toward specific goals or ends, and they cannot be sustained forever, what do you believe to be the goals of the conspiracy you describe? CDE

      • CDE,

        Have you heard of “The Bubba Effect?” I can’t speak for Gemini, but you could EASILY make the case that this Administration is intentionally stirring the race pot in hopes that it will spark a backlash that they can declare a ‘crisis’ and use to justify all sorts of nefarious stuff. We mustn’t forget that the people who thought social unrest would lead to their new utopia in the 1960’s are now in and running the government, and many of them have openly stated that they never changed their agenda. In fact, some have said they just didn’t try hard enough. Given that this is almost universally the excuse of the control freak — we didn’t try hard enough or go big enough, etc, etc — this should be enough to cause a pause, if not an out-right chill 😉

        • Joe: I am familiar with the “Bubba Effect” idea and it is not as fantastic as it seems on first exposure. Collectivist governments around the world have been trying to use the “we need more time” excuse for their failures since they began gaining power in various nations in the late 19th century. I am very concerned that various actions being carried out by Obamite bureaucrats can be read in a sinister light. The stockpiling of ammunition and weapons, the creation of an internal “military” within Homeland Security and the spying on average Americans are not good signs. Khrushchev said that American democracy would be overthrown from within by a gradual desensitization to the loss of our rights as citizens. That threat may be becoming more real every day. CDE

          • CDE,

            Our founders told us that, if we ever fell, it would be from within, so this is a very real and serious consideration.

            Patrick Henry said the only we have to guide our judgment of the future is the past, and if we judge what our govt. is doing today by the past, again we have a very real reason to worry.

            Finally, every “monster” in the past gave warnings of what they intended to do and how, it’s just that people didn’t listen and those who did didn’t understand and those who understood refused to believe them. We have the same thing today: they have been openly telling us what they plan to do, why and how, and we have not heard, have not understood and have refused to believe.

            All together, it should combine to drive home a very important message: It CAN happen here and it will — unless we wake up and act NOW!

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